Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Gio Gio wrote:Prove something has no limits?
Prove Goku can destroy a solar system.
Prove STTGL can resist Casualty.
Show some scans? Not that that'd be enough proof anyway.
And sure let me get you the stand page :3
And because it doesn't say it makes it less true? Goku you get your ass back down to Island level.
No better yet mountain level.

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
wow...2 pages of expalantions is not proof? What the heck have I been doing you think?

I offered proof, you offer counterargument, and I have seen nothing besides "they're too powerful to be summoned by BR".

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.

Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.

Wasn't going to until everyone started throwing that thread out as an argument. Also STTGL controls all reality and probability on at least a Universal scale and low-Multiversal if you scale him to Anti-Spril due to the Multi-Dimensional Labyrinth it created and manipulated, which is specifically stated to hold several alternate universes. A reality warper on that scale is more then I can give GER alone credit in beating. Novel Kars is a completely different story I'll agree, but if we go the NLF route, I can make an argument amount Spiral Energy and general Rule of Cool and say they evolve enough to beat him anyway while on their way to take on their sworn enemy, Elder God Demonbane. After all, Spiral Energy has no definite limit in power and abilities one can achieve with it too.

Good thing I have this piece of text saved:

To Gold Experience Requiem range should be completely irrelevant. As you know, it can act within erased time as it negated Diavolo's attacks in erased time and put him in a death loop through causality manipulation. However, GER doesn't simply transcend time, it also transcends space because time and space are two sides of the same coin, you can't have time without having space and vice versa, there's a reason why they're called space-time instead of time AND space. So when Diavolo erases time, he also erases space, and so that means GER acted in both of the absence of time and space, or should I say, space-time. And so when you transcend space-time you transcend 4 dimensions, making distance and duration completely irrelevant. And that also means that GER is effectively a hyper-dimensional entity, at least 5-dimensional.

But then comes the next part, GER doesn't simply control causality, it also controls probability as these two are also two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other, look up probabilistic causation; these two concepts exist across all of existence because they are fundamental pivotal concepts, so that also means that GER's powers aren't "multiversal", they are way beyond that, they apply to all of creation, further cemented by GER transcending space-time.

And I see it as a Stand that affects the concept of cause and effect by nullifying the effect and for all we know, fell victim to Universal scale reality warping. Matches perfectly with the description said about it. Dude, OthusVice hasn't been this lively in a while. I'm loving it.

GeneralVan wrote:Couldn't Novel Kars theoretically summon Kami Tenchi?

GeneralVan wrote:Couldn't Novel Kars theoretically summon Kami Tenchi?

GeneralVan wrote:Couldn't Novel Kars theoretically summon Kami Tenchi?

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Are we really gonna throw the "Infinity" claim for Kars against his opponent whose feats and everything about it are described as Infinity X Infinity? Gimmicky yes, but still applies to that argument as at least meaning infinity.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Couldn't Novel Kars theoretically summon Kami Tenchi?

If I'm allowed to use the Fallacy that Demonbane brings out a copy of itself piloted by Kami Tenchi and Joseph Joestar for this fight.

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

Except that example doesn't work at all because 
1. Reinhard is not city level
2. That's called scale. What I'm talking about is simply the ability to do just that, you're treating it as if it was a ki-attack from DBZ or something.
It's just the ability to bring fictional characters into life, nothing more, nothing less. The reason we've been going for 4 pages now is because you're over-complicating it and applying shonen logic.

Also, the info I got is from people who read the novel and are currently translating it, people I trust. Can't bring you any scans because it's still in the works.

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

Except that example doesn't work at all because 
1. Reinhard is not city level
2. That's called scale. What I'm talking about is simply the ability to do just that, you're treating it as if it was a ki-attack from DBZ or something.
It's just the ability to bring fictional characters into life, nothing more, nothing less. The reason we've been going for 4 pages now is because you're over-complicating it and applying shonen logic.

Also, the info I got is from people who read the novel and are currently translating it, people I trust. Can't bring you any scans because it's still in the works.

1.- Reinhard before reaching godhood is city level
2.- Yes, and you propose BR can go up to a scale it hasn't shown. Ever.

As for the scans, I want them, or at least transcriptions of them. I would like to actually see some Kars' feats and achievements.

EVA_01 wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Couldn't Novel Kars theoretically summon Kami Tenchi?

If I'm allowed to use the Fallacy that Demonbane brings out a copy of itself piloted by Kami Tenchi and Joseph Joestar for this fight.

DO IT XDDD

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

Except that example doesn't work at all because 
1. Reinhard is not city level
2. That's called scale. What I'm talking about is simply the ability to do just that, you're treating it as if it was a ki-attack from DBZ or something.
It's just the ability to bring fictional characters into life, nothing more, nothing less. The reason we've been going for 4 pages now is because you're over-complicating it and applying shonen logic.

Also, the info I got is from people who read the novel and are currently translating it, people I trust. Can't bring you any scans because it's still in the works.

1.- Reinhard before reaching godhood is city level
2.- Yes, and you propose BR can go up to a scale it hasn't shown. Ever.

As for the scans, I want them, or at least transcriptions of them. I would like to actually see some Kars' feats and achievements.

1. Did Reinhard have Longinus before attaining Briah?
2. Doesn't need to show it if that's what it can do.

Gio can you link you to their stuff, there's also info on it from the wiki. Don't tell me you don't use wikis, you guys have been using the russian and the spanish wiki for Kami-sama. Sucks Gare probably won't continue his stuff

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

Except that example doesn't work at all because 
1. Reinhard is not city level
2. That's called scale. What I'm talking about is simply the ability to do just that, you're treating it as if it was a ki-attack from DBZ or something.
It's just the ability to bring fictional characters into life, nothing more, nothing less. The reason we've been going for 4 pages now is because you're over-complicating it and applying shonen logic.

Also, the info I got is from people who read the novel and are currently translating it, people I trust. Can't bring you any scans because it's still in the works.

1.- Reinhard before reaching godhood is city level
2.- Yes, and you propose BR can go up to a scale it hasn't shown. Ever.

As for the scans, I want them, or at least transcriptions of them. I would like to actually see some Kars' feats and achievements.

1. Did Reinhard have Longinus before attaining Briah?
2. Doesn't need to show it if that's what it can do.

Gio can you link you to their stuff, there's also info on it from the wiki. Don't tell me you don't use wikis, you guys have been using the russian and the spanish wiki for Kami-sama. Sucks Gare probably won't continue his stuff

1.-And this is the guy who says I'm using ACF or that wocial bullshit. All my info comes from the novel itself Yes, Reinhard had Longinuslanze before Briah, that's something you know after having read at least Dies' second chapter before even getting into routes. Though maybe those characteristics were acquired after the commanders became Einherjar, and he already could use Briah by that point. But adquiring such abilities is an explicit capability of Longinuslanze, not of the Gladsheimr. Briah is not were the crazy stuff is at, Atziluth is. Reinhard's Valhalla is just city level at best, even when it's really versatile. And I don't know how we got into this.

2.- Yes, it does.

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

EVA_01 wrote:@trexalfa
Official description of the stand power: Can summon fictional things

My conjecture: It can summon any fictional thing barring omnis

Your conjecture: Nope, not these X guys, too powerful.

Who's the one using basic logic? Definitely not you. Until you come up with something else other than they're too powerful I won't bother to reply.

I'm just going to use another example:

Reinhard Heydrich, from Dies Irae. His weapon, Longinuslanze Testament, carries his commanders' special abilities, which are instantaneous kill, impossible to dodge or avoid, and impossible to outrun.

Official description of the weapon: It kills in one throw, it can't miss, and you cannot do anything but be hit.

"My" conjecture: It can absolutely kill anything in one blow barring omnis, and it cannot be avoided.

A sane person's conjecture: So, a barely above city level character via powerscalling one shotting a Celestial... not happening.

This is the exact shit you are pulling. That's to say feats are necessary, if not, we end with pretty stupid things which defy logic, such as Voldemort killing Thanos.

EVA_01 wrote:Why, do you wanna go that route? So far I've been mentioning Bohemian Rhapsody, didn't even mention that Kars has Omnilock and infinite power when he reached Heaven and that he has every stand including their requiem versions.

Could I ever see a scan from the novel itself? Or at least a source of info about it (preferibly in japanese, thanks).

Except that example doesn't work at all because 
1. Reinhard is not city level
2. That's called scale. What I'm talking about is simply the ability to do just that, you're treating it as if it was a ki-attack from DBZ or something.
It's just the ability to bring fictional characters into life, nothing more, nothing less. The reason we've been going for 4 pages now is because you're over-complicating it and applying shonen logic.

Also, the info I got is from people who read the novel and are currently translating it, people I trust. Can't bring you any scans because it's still in the works.

1.- Reinhard before reaching godhood is city level
2.- Yes, and you propose BR can go up to a scale it hasn't shown. Ever.

As for the scans, I want them, or at least transcriptions of them. I would like to actually see some Kars' feats and achievements.

1. Did Reinhard have Longinus before attaining Briah?
2. Doesn't need to show it if that's what it can do.

Gio can you link you to their stuff, there's also info on it from the wiki. Don't tell me you don't use wikis, you guys have been using the russian and the spanish wiki for Kami-sama. Sucks Gare probably won't continue his stuff

1.-And this is the guy who says I'm using ACF or that wocial bullshit. All my info comes from the novel itself Yes, Reinhard had Longinuslanze before Briah, that's something you know after having read at least Dies' second chapter before even getting into routes. Though maybe those characteristics were acquired after the commanders became Einherjar, and he already could use Briah by that point. But adquiring such abilities is an explicit capability of Longinuslanze, not of the Gladsheimr. Briah is not were the crazy stuff is at, Atziluth is. Reinhard's Valhalla is just city level at best, even when it's really versatile. And I don't know how we got into this.

2.- Yes, it does.

ACF? Wocial?
I only read Gare's stuff, which is why I asked.
Anyway, returning to that example there ya have it, you just answered yourself. If Briah Reinhard used Longinus against Mercurius who's a natural Atziluth user it wouldn't do sh*t, and that's called scale. And it doesn't apply to BR because it's not an attack.

3. Look up the Argument Clinic by Monty Python