Superman (new 52) vs Goku (FnF)

Cell is not a solar system buster. Beerus is, but he's literally thousands of times more powerful.

Also, if they are MFTL, mind explaining why it took Buu years to destroy a few hundred planets? If he were that fast, he'd have done that in a fraction of the time. Not to mention the Z fighters (post Namek Saga, mind you) were amazed that Goku could go from Kami house and back instantly, which should've been easy for someone who is MFTL.

Ok this is what someone posted on AV
"Simple. Only Frieza and SSJ Goku showed the ability to destroy Planets in the manga. Vegeta's statement of blowing up the Earth is just that, a statement, with nothing to prove it. The guidebooks aren't even written by Toriyama, save for maps. And no one from Saiyan Saga and up showed something even close to moon-level dc.

Roshi's moonbuster was an outlier, evidenced by Piccolo Daimao being only city level and Roshi getting tired after destroying mount frypan. Piccolo Jr. is only Island-level in feats. The difference between End of DB and beginning of DBZ Piccolo cannot be scaled to moon-level because 1. Training was nowhere as effective in DB as it was in DBZ, Goku going from wall level to Island-leve+ took him 7 years, even with having his potential unlocked 2 times. 2. Even the power-levels show there isn't much difference between Piccolo Jr. and Piccolo in power, and PLs were not bullsh*t in DB, unlike DBZ. 3. It was never replicated by anyone stronger than Piccolo. EVER.
Therefore you can't even scale Vegeta to Planet-level from that feat as it was an outlier. So you can't scale Frieza to anything higher than Planet level, and so you can't scale Cell to anything higher than Multi-planet level.

The end."

Akronawol17 wrote:Cell is not a solar system buster. Beerus is, but he's literally thousands of times more powerful.

Also, if they are MFTL, mind explaining why it took Buu years to destroy a few hundred planets? If he were that fast, he'd have done that in a fraction of the time. Not to mention the Z fighters (post Namek Saga, mind you) were amazed that Goku could go from Kami house and back instantly, which should've been easy for someone who is MFTL.

Kid Buu's old feats are kinda irrelevant when you realize season 1 characters could also have done that and Vegeta though that was pathetic.

For the IT, is just the author trying to make Goku look cool, and even Vegeta said it is possible if he is moving fast. But again they are many plot holes in the series and I understand you questioning their speed.

Another example is snake way speed. It was PIS, you realize that when Popo was faster than lightning and Kid Goku surpassed him way back in Dragonball and how even Kami who can see everything on earth on his throne at Kami's palace ,yet can't even see Goku and Picolo Jr fighting. Both feats and others in Dragonball are superior to Snake Way ,since snake way speed is not even lighning speed,lol
which is proven to be WIS .

Another one is when kid Trunks looking for the dragon radar and took him minutes to fly to get it and capsule corp. Which was when Toriyama showed SSJ3 for the first time. Even Base Goku in Namek flew to one side of the planet to the other before freeza even hits Vegeta. yet we know base kid trunks>base goku namek saga. And trunks was flying in Super Saiyan, lol

So I understand why you question DB, but that's why guidebooks are for ,to clarify things like Cell statement ,etc.

Falbium_Asmodeus wrote:Ok this is what someone posted on AV
"Simple. Only Frieza and SSJ Goku showed the ability to destroy Planets in the manga. Vegeta's statement of blowing up the Earth is just that, a statement, with nothing to prove it. The guidebooks aren't even written by Toriyama, save for maps. And no one from Saiyan Saga and up showed something even close to moon-level dc.

Roshi's moonbuster was an outlier, evidenced by Piccolo Daimao being only city level and Roshi getting tired after destroying mount frypan. Piccolo Jr. is only Island-level in feats. The difference between End of DB and beginning of DBZ Piccolo cannot be scaled to moon-level because 1. Training was nowhere as effective in DB as it was in DBZ, Goku going from wall level to Island-leve+ took him 7 years, even with having his potential unlocked 2 times. 2. Even the power-levels show there isn't much difference between Piccolo Jr. and Piccolo in power, and PLs were not bullsh*t in DB, unlike DBZ. 3. It was never replicated by anyone stronger than Piccolo. EVER.
Therefore you can't even scale Vegeta to Planet-level from that feat as it was an outlier. So you can't scale Frieza to anything higher than Planet level, and so you can't scale Cell to anything higher than Multi-planet level.

The end."

I've been in AV and they were pretty much biased towards DBZ.
They lack to comprehend ki control being directly related to AoE
And what's funny guidebooks do say that Vegeta Galick gun was going to destroy the Earth.
Roshi a moonbust and Outlier is funny when picolo did I it casually in BoZ. The difference was Roshi did it at Full power with a PL of 139 and Picolo with a PL of 400+ did it casually.

For them everything is an outlier.
What's ironic goku's training in DBZ is far better than in Dragonball. He went from moon+ to planet, to star, to solar system and so on.
Also the Power levels going through the roof pretty much shows it.

But hey if they want to believe that, they are entitled to their opinion.

cell having the power of 20,000 supernovas is ridiculous. nobody is ever gonna believe such a thing.

Omnivortex wrote:

Falbium_Asmodeus wrote:Ok this is what someone posted on AV
"Simple. Only Frieza and SSJ Goku showed the ability to destroy Planets in the manga. Vegeta's statement of blowing up the Earth is just that, a statement, with nothing to prove it. The guidebooks aren't even written by Toriyama, save for maps. And no one from Saiyan Saga and up showed something even close to moon-level dc.

Roshi's moonbuster was an outlier, evidenced by Piccolo Daimao being only city level and Roshi getting tired after destroying mount frypan. Piccolo Jr. is only Island-level in feats. The difference between End of DB and beginning of DBZ Piccolo cannot be scaled to moon-level because 1. Training was nowhere as effective in DB as it was in DBZ, Goku going from wall level to Island-leve+ took him 7 years, even with having his potential unlocked 2 times. 2. Even the power-levels show there isn't much difference between Piccolo Jr. and Piccolo in power, and PLs were not bullsh*t in DB, unlike DBZ. 3. It was never replicated by anyone stronger than Piccolo. EVER.
Therefore you can't even scale Vegeta to Planet-level from that feat as it was an outlier. So you can't scale Frieza to anything higher than Planet level, and so you can't scale Cell to anything higher than Multi-planet level.

The end."

I've been in AV and they were pretty much biased towards DBZ.
They lack to comprehend ki control being directly related to AoE
And what's funny guidebooks do say that Vegeta Galick gun was going to destroy the Earth.
Roshi a moonbust and Outlier is funny when picolo did I it casually in BoZ. The difference was Roshi did it at Full power with a PL of 139 and Picolo with a PL of 400+ did it casually.

For them everything is an outlier.
What's ironic goku's training in DBZ is far better than in Dragonball. He went from moon+ to planet, to star, to solar system and so on.
Also the Power levels going through the roof pretty much shows it.

But hey if they want to believe that, they are entitled to their opinion.

Goku has never, ever shown the ability to be a solar system buster. Hell, he hasn't even shown the ability to bust a star from what I remember. Until Beerus or Whis shows the ability to actually destroy a solar system, they will remain at multi-planetary.

Of course, I could just be being stubborn about the whole thing and Beerus and Whis might actually be Solar System busters. But until feats are shown they will remain at multi-planetary. They do have some insane physical feats from what I remember though.

Beerus did bust 2 stars casually, off panel, as stated by Whis.

i am perfectly ok with bills busting 2 stars.

to be a solar system buster with a ki blast the blast needs the power of 20,000 supernovas. how the fck you jump from planet+ to multi solar+ level?? ridiculous.

Othus wrote:cell having the power of 20,000 supernovas is ridiculous. nobody is ever gonna believe such a thing.

that's the minimum power to solar system bust and whether you believe it or not is still factual . Personally I don't have any problem with that, it just proof Freeza rumors about being Supernova lvl is true. Also if guidebooks says he is Solar system buster and even author wrote it, I seriously doubt it is not true, there is too many evidence supporting that.

IMO Frieza is just large planet level. Cell DEFINITELY does not have the power of 20,000 supernovas lol. People still debate whether or not he is solar system level. I personally believe that he could destroy the solar system, but only by chain reaction through busting the sun.

Othus wrote:i am perfectly ok with bills busting 2 stars.

to be a solar system buster with a ki blast the blast needs the power of 20,000 supernovas. how the fck you jump from planet+ to multi solar+ level?? ridiculous.

No need to get mad, if you watch or read Dragonball you would know Goku and Co get exponentially stronger in each saga. They were island to moon to planet to star to solar system and so on. They didn't magically went to planet+ to solar system+ , that's just ridiculous and ignorant.

You seem to completely forget about training and zenkais, new villains ,etc.

What's funny is that Cell kept increasing his Ki after said statement and releasing his KKH.
And Gohan overpowered him with half his ki according to legend of manga guide.
And teen Gohan is weaker than Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku. You see, their power kept increasing  ,and that's not even SSJ3 or Mystic Gohan who are far above SPC. No need to mention Vegito who's potara multiplier is insane. You seem to think they don't massively increase their power in each arc. That's why you fail to comprehend Dragonball power set

nothing ever in the saga has even come close to that featwise. not even a 5% of that.

again notice how vegeta ssj2 was calling majin buu suicidal because he wanted to destroy earth.

Othus wrote:nothing ever in the saga has even come close to that featwise. not even a 5% of that.

again notice how vegeta ssj2 was calling majin buu suicidal because he wanted to destroy earth.

so kid buu is earth lvl?Is like you never heard of area of effect, his Energy ball has ki potency. Heck if we both go by collateral damage Freeza>>>Majin Vegeta and BoZ picolo>>>>recoome. Which is ridiculous . And planet lvl was saiyan saga. Grasping to those statements is hilarious tbh, when there other feats and statement far above planet lvl in DBZ and manga. You seem to be biased about it , but hey you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I just find ridiculous that you think Supes new 52 has chance against God Goku. Cell is already more than enough

I find it more ridiculous the amount of wishful thinking involved to put DBZ characters at anything past Multi-Planet level until Battle of the Gods. His blast covered the Earth only and he had no reason to hold back, not that a planet busting attack by any means is holding back.

Kid Buu got vaped in that same planet+ level blast too, but thankfully he can put himself back together.

well if what toriyama says is word of god then i'll point to the time base goku couldnt lift 40 tons.

Othus wrote:well if what toriyama says is word of god then i'll point to the time base goku couldnt lift 40 tons.

can't blame you Akira is forgetful and pretty inconsistent,he even admited his staff knows more than him.
although lifting ≠ punching force.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:I find it more ridiculous the amount of wishful thinking involved to put DBZ characters at anything past Multi-Planet level until Battle of the Gods. His blast covered the Earth only and he had no reason to hold back, not that a planet busting attack by any means is holding back.

Kid Buu got vaped in that same planet+ level blast too, but thankfully he can put himself back together.

what is ridiculous is that you think BoG= Namek Saga, and not even Top tiers. By your logic Namek saga Freeza>Vegeta. I guess you don't know thay they control their AoE and was even explained by Raditz.

strenght matters when fighting against a guy like superman. even if you hit hard it clearly means superman could turn him into paste with little to no effort by gripping him.

Othus wrote:strenght matters when fighting against a guy like superman. even if you hit hard it clearly means superman could turn him into paste with little to no effort by gripping him.

not in Dragonball anyway.Even if you use Toriyama's inconsistencies like 40 tons.  Base Freeza still casually dismembered with one hand a guy with planet+ lvl durability. Supes is physically inferior in punching strength too.Freeza first form is a better match tbh. He has nothing on Cell,let alone Goku besides intelligence. Cell flicks supes and atomize him. Kind of disappointed at this thread but at the same not since Toriyama is a very forgetful person (so he is sometimes inconsistent) as he has stated in many interviews . I have the impression you are close minded about Cell being that powerful and funny thing is not even my opinion is Akira and Toei who are owners of Dragonball. So I won't even bother with how powerful is Fukkatsu no F God Goku.

Not even their blasts have planet level potency because we see Cell saga goku dying by planet burst the same with kid buu so if there blasts had planetary potency goku would be oneshotted with ease same with buu with the exception of the eclipse beast of DBZ none of are above multi planet durability

As far as I know about the 40tons weight lifting thing I saw this.

''It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.'' Basically flying consumes a lot of ki as far as that manual goes.

Migertor wrote:Not even their blasts have planet level potency  because we see Cell saga goku dying by planet burst the same with kid buu so if there blasts had planetary potency goku would be oneshotted with ease same with buu with the exception of the eclipse beast of DBZ none of are above multi planet durability

• lowballing , we don't know how potent the attack was. Saibamen self destructed was barely 6feet wide yet it killed yamcha. by that logic radditz level characters get killed small grenades.
  

• semi perfect cell>>>>> Imperfect cell >>piccolo>> ssj1 trunks>> freeza = casual planet buster, cell  you are implying that semi perfect cells best DC is small hill level
  

scaling they should be at multi large planet level, pre bog. (and of course not taking anime into account).

Omnivortex wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:I find it more ridiculous the amount of wishful thinking involved to put DBZ characters at anything past Multi-Planet level until Battle of the Gods. His blast covered the Earth only and he had no reason to hold back, not that a planet busting attack by any means is holding back.

Kid Buu got vaped in that same planet+ level blast too, but thankfully he can put himself back together.

what is ridiculous is that you think BoG= Namek Saga, and not even Top tiers. By your logic Namek saga Freeza>Vegeta. I guess you don't know thay they control their AoE and was even explained by Raditz.

What's ridiculous? Namek Saga and Android Saga are Planet level in feats. We get the first confirmed Multi-Planet level characters like Super Saiyan Goku being able to destroy the Earth 10x times over Kid Buu nuking hundreds of planets, even if it took him years. Battle of the Gods now has Star+ level feats to Solar System level.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Omnivortex wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:I find it more ridiculous the amount of wishful thinking involved to put DBZ characters at anything past Multi-Planet level until Battle of the Gods. His blast covered the Earth only and he had no reason to hold back, not that a planet busting attack by any means is holding back.

Kid Buu got vaped in that same planet+ level blast too, but thankfully he can put himself back together.

what is ridiculous is that you think BoG= Namek Saga, and not even Top tiers. By your logic Namek saga Freeza>Vegeta. I guess you don't know thay they control their AoE and was even explained by Raditz.

What's ridiculous? Namek Saga and Android Saga are Planet level in feats. We get the first confirmed Multi-Planet level characters like Super Saiyan Goku being able to destroy the Earth 10x times over Kid Buu nuking hundreds of planets, even if it took him years. Battle of the Gods now has Star+ level feats to Solar System level.

they were easy planet + in dc , freeza has confirmed he destroyed planet vegeta in his 1st form , the energy gap between 1st form freeza ---> ASSJ vegeta is ridiculously huge to just say planet level.

Let us see I punch steel my punch dents it a little
A professional boxer punches he dents it too just because they are way stronger than other characters does not make them stronger in DC
Cell should be large planet buster and let us look at logic here
Freeza first form=planet buster
Bills much stronger than freeza=hyped instant solar system buster
And my point still stands there normal blasts logically do not have planetary potency