John Constantine Vs Beatrice The endless witch

Rules.
Scenario 1
1. Both have knowledge
2. John has a year of prep
3. Battle starts 5 feet away
4. Battle takes place in an abandoned amusement park
5. No blitzing
6. Vertigo Constantine
7. Can't end in sex
Scenario 2.

1. Both have knowledge
2. John gets prep
3. Battle starts 5 feet away
4. Battle takes place in Beatrice's mansion
5. no speed restrictions
6. DC Constantine
7. Can end in sex


VS

As much as love John, he has no way of hurting Beatrice. Unlike with the First of the Fallen, Beato has no weaknesses that John can exploit. So Beatrice wins. Although, I doubt she would even fight him. She would most likely just troll him, lol.

Although...John does have a chance to at least piss Beato off, or scare her with an elaborate bluff, since he has preptime.

Before this goes on, let's keep this civil and if it leads to a stalemate, agree to disagree and shake on it. I'm counting on you guys.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Before this goes on, let's keep this civil and if it leads to a stalemate, agree to disagree and shake on it. I'm counting on you guys.

i am the moderator of the battle forum, and i approve this message XD

Beatrice is extremely arrogant though, John can use this weakness and exploit it. Her intelligence shouldn't rival people like Gabriel. I mean she is very smart and manipulative but her arrogance kinda makes her easy to take advantage of that way.

I'm assuming round 2 ends in sex.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Before this goes on, let's keep this civil and if it leads to a stalemate, agree to disagree and shake on it. I'm counting on you guys.

There is no agree to disagree if it's a stalemate! You win or you lose, those are the ways of battle forum! Besides, it's not like thing's weren't civil before.

Well......you did kinda change your avi and start trolling hardcore.

Kurohige wrote:Beatrice is extremely arrogant though, John can use this weakness and exploit it. Her intelligence shouldn't rival people like Gabriel. I mean she is very smart and manipulative but her arrogance kinda makes her easy to take advantage of that way.

Yeah, that is true, I agree with you on that. However, without any way for him to harm her, John has no way to win. Beato might be arrogant, but on his own, John has nothing to put Beato out of comission. If he did, be would definetly have a chance to cheese her, taking advantage of her ego and whatnot.

Kurohige wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Before this goes on, let's keep this civil and if it leads to a stalemate, agree to disagree and shake on it. I'm counting on you guys.

There is no agree to disagree if it's a stalemate! You win or you lose, those are the ways of battle forum! Besides, it's not like thing's weren't civil before.

if things go nowhere, you can and will agree to disagree. I refuse to let your pride cause another escapade, such as the last thread. Things were anything but civil before, and you know this.

please just agree to these terms. Having a win-or-lose only scenario will only instigate problems.

Too much tension here. Everyone here knows what their expected to do. Lets have a good time.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Yeah, that is true, I agree with you on that. However, without any way for him to harm her, John has no way to win. Beato might be arrogant, but on his own, John has nothing to put Beato out of comission. If he did, be would definetly have a chance to cheese her, taking advantage of her ego and whatnot.

He can simply convince her to leave/ give up or kill herself.

Akronawol17 wrote:

Kurohige wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Before this goes on, let's keep this civil and if it leads to a stalemate, agree to disagree and shake on it. I'm counting on you guys.

There is no agree to disagree if it's a stalemate! You win or you lose, those are the ways of battle forum! Besides, it's not like thing's weren't civil before.

if things go nowhere, you can and will agree to disagree. I refuse to let your pride cause another escapade, such as the last thread. Things were anything but civil before, and you know this.

please just agree to these terms. Having a win-or-lose only scenario will only instigate problems.

NO!

Kurohige wrote:

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Yeah, that is true, I agree with you on that. However, without any way for him to harm her, John has no way to win. Beato might be arrogant, but on his own, John has nothing to put Beato out of comission. If he did, be would definetly have a chance to cheese her, taking advantage of her ego and whatnot.

He can simply convince her to leave/ give up or kill herself.

Give up? Eh, possibly...never considered that. But I don't think he could convince her to kill herself...unless he convinced her that Battler was dead, that is. However, that would take more hocus pocus than John is capable of. Simple illusions, actors, and lies, wont cut it. She's arrogant, yes, but not stupid. He could definetly outsmart her, but I can't see him taking her on combat wise, no matter how much prep he's given.

So be it then.

But keep in mind that if this thread devolves into meaningless back-and-forth accusations, i'm locking it. As well as if there's any rude comments or insults. Keep these rules in mind, and that goes for everyone participating.

Quote this and say "yes" if you understand.

Akronawol17 wrote:So be it then.

But keep in mind that if this thread devolves into meaningless back-and-forth accusations, i'm locking it. As well as if there's any rude comments or insults. Keep these rules in mind, and that goes for everyone participating.

Quote this and say "yes" if you understand.

Okie dokie lokie!

what can she do???

Othus wrote:what can she do???

She can do almost everything Battler can do, aside from Endless 9, and Golden Key, iirc.

Based on feats provided, Beato should win.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Give up? Eh, possibly...never considered that. But I don't think he could convince her to kill herself...unless he convinced her that Battler was dead, that is. However, that would take more hocus pocus than John is capable of. Simple illusions, actors, and lies, wont cut it. She's arrogant, yes, but not stupid. He could definetly outsmart her, but I can't see him taking her on combat wise, no matter how much prep he's given.

With full knowledge I don't see why not, John has done some down right Deus EX-kinda stuff, without any powers. John hardly fights, he doesn't even try to tangle with random thugs if he can avoid it, other higher level beings he usually has the help of others, like Zatanna for example to help him out and even then it's only to escape and not actually win the fight, that's his character.

Beatrice is not stupid no, but she feels, she has emotion, and that's all Constantine needs:

Talks a serial killer into killing himself who ha dno care for human life and had been at it for a while:



Tricked Gabriel who is comparable to Lucifer (I know Lucifer is stronger but not by terribly much, Luficer himself is dang near omniscient)




Drove annetire mafia group into death or madness with his persuasion, note that this was not the use of magic either, just some words


And finally, likely his most impressive feat, Constantine mainfests a projection spell capable of fooling even true-form Darkseid and his "eighteen divine senses" into thinking the universe they were in was dead:
(images are huge here so I'm just gonna link the scans)
https://i.imgur.com/jdBYcRp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0UF4QQG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iB8DqF4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ynjjhJX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ok5cuCx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sKNm6Dp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QuTE0Pb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/da8ES3J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/THNlp3r.jpg
It's debatable if that would work since it was a spell, however John's persuasion was also part of it, there is no doubt that if he can make a being like Darkseid with divine senses think the universe was gone, he can make someone as smart albeit unstable as Beatrice believe Battler is dead. In a straight up fight, yes, no spell, astral seals, or BFR will help John in anyway, Beatrice-sama would destroy him easily at any point in the series, but an in character run-in between the two, and with prep and knowledge (Usually, how John would willing go into a fight anyway) he should be capable of that much.

Akronawol17 wrote:So be it then.

But keep in mind that if this thread devolves into meaningless back-and-forth accusations, i'm locking it. As well as if there's any rude comments or insults. Keep these rules in mind, and that goes for everyone participating.

Quote this and say "yes" if you understand.

Meaningless is kind of a subjective term, no? One man's trash is another man's treasure, yeah? If both people felt so strongly about something let them go at it, either party could have left the debate at any time if they thought it was pointless, however both of us felt compelled to debate. Still as far as rue comments goes, I don't think there was any aside from some scary CAPS LOCK going on now and then. It's like watching two dogs playing, it looks rough at first and to the other people around them but to them they are just having the time of their lives. But if I feel like my feelings are getting hurt you will be the first one I snuggle up with until I feel better, Akro-san♥

As long as you guys understand, have fun.

There is no fun in the battle forums, it's a battle for a reason! You want fun?! Go to the zoo!

Kurohige wrote:

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Give up? Eh, possibly...never considered that. But I don't think he could convince her to kill herself...unless he convinced her that Battler was dead, that is. However, that would take more hocus pocus than John is capable of. Simple illusions, actors, and lies, wont cut it. She's arrogant, yes, but not stupid. He could definetly outsmart her, but I can't see him taking her on combat wise, no matter how much prep he's given.

With full knowledge I don't see why not, John has done some down right Deus EX-kinda stuff, without any powers. John hardly fights, he doesn't even try to tangle with random thugs if he can avoid it, other higher level beings he usually has the help of others, like Zatanna for example to help him out and even then it's only to escape and not actually win the fight, that's his character.

Beatrice is not stupid no, but she feels, she has emotion, and that's all Constantine needs:

Talks a serial killer into killing himself who ha dno care for human life and had been at it for a while:



Tricked Gabriel who is comparable to Lucifer (I know Lucifer is stronger but not by terribly much, Luficer himself is dang near omniscient)




Drove annetire mafia group into death or madness with his persuasion, note that this was not the use of magic either, just some words


And finally, likely his most impressive feat, Constantine mainfests a projection spell capable of fooling even true-form Darkseid and his "eighteen divine senses" into thinking the universe they were in was dead:
(images are huge here so I'm just gonna link the scans)
https://i.imgur.com/jdBYcRp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0UF4QQG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iB8DqF4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ynjjhJX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ok5cuCx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sKNm6Dp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QuTE0Pb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/da8ES3J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/THNlp3r.jpg
It's debatable if that would work since it was a spell, however John's persuasion was also part of it, there is no doubt that if he can make a being like Darkseid with divine senses think the universe was gone, he can make someone as smart albeit unstable as Beatrice believe Battler is dead. In a straight up fight, yes, no spell, astral seals, or BFR will help John in anyway, Beatrice-sama would destroy him easily at any point in the series, but an in character run-in between the two, and with prep and knowledge (Usually, how John would willing go into a fight anyway) he should be capable of that much.

Akronawol17 wrote:So be it then.

But keep in mind that if this thread devolves into meaningless back-and-forth accusations, i'm locking it. As well as if there's any rude comments or insults. Keep these rules in mind, and that goes for everyone participating.

Quote this and say "yes" if you understand.

Meaningless is kind of a subjective term, no? One man's trash is another man's treasure, yeah? If both people felt so strongly about something let them go at it, either party could have left the debate at any time if they thought it was pointless, however both of us felt compelled to debate. Still as far as rue comments goes, I don't think there was any aside from some scary CAPS LOCK going on now and then. It's like watching two dogs playing, it looks rough at first and to the other people around them but to them they are just having the time of their lives. But if I feel like my feelings are getting hurt you will be the first one I snuggle up with until I feel better, Akro-san♥

I'm well aware of how John does things. Using nothing but trickery, bluffs, and subtle suggestion, he has fooled greater demons into falling for his schemes, hook line and sinker. Just like the time he pretended to predict hell's stock markets would crash, making the demon lord of business (thats nkt a joke, he really was the 1# business man of hell) become paranoid and unnerved. John ended up being right, causing the demon to kill his own minions in frustration, and leave Liverpool, threatening to make John's soul into a button for his waist coat, lol.

But, I digress. I'm a huge fan of John, and while I do think that he has the intellectual advantage here, he's still not in for an.easy time. I still think he could only win via tricking her into surrender/retreat. The reason why I don't see him convincing Beatrice of Battler's death, is because Battler's sister, Ange; the Golden Witch of Resurrection. She can, and has, revived people on a whim. Beatrice would simply shrug off any such claims and assume that Battler would be attended to by Ange.

John wins.
*waits*

Naruto Uzumaki wrote:John wins.
*waits*

How? His only chance of victory is tricking her into surrender. Other than that, Beatrice has his number in any other scenario.