Pre retcon Beyonder vs Battler

MM, struck fear into LT, a clash between the two struck fear into reality. Not only that but Beyonder's power was beyond the scope of MM's imagination.

Kurohige wrote:

Gio Gio wrote:Then this will simply be an agree to disagree it will never end.
I mean NK and Battler was shorter than this.

How is this a stalemate when Battler has no way to defend against Beyonder, let alone harm him? Beyonder would laugh at Batt;ers attempts to defend against him as he has faced greater beings. Perhaps it didn't need to be necroed but Beyonder obviously wins this battle.

Your funny. You can't just say Beyonder can now bypass Endless 9 because "he's above concepts", it doesn't work that way. Beyonder still isn't touching Battler. Also, Golden Key and infinite DC says differently about your "has no way to harm him" claim.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
1. Give me 1, even ONE shred of proof that you must be above a concept to harm it. Because it looks to me that all thats needded to beat those "all powerful conceptual beings" is energy blasts. YOU HAVE PROVEN NOTHING.

2. Endless 9 is infinite, LT isn't. Nuff said. Battler would make LT his bitch.

3. LT is the embodiment of concepts, but nowhere does it say that those concepts are beyond comprehension.

1. Hulk, SS, Glactus on his best day, IG Thanos, Cytorak Juggernaught ect. can't harm LT. LT was harmed by another nigh-omnipotent being and only him, nothing to suggest you can be strong enough to harm him. I proved my point, multiple times now, you not comprehending or choosing not to doesn't change that fact.

2.






"The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your window - get outside and check it out!!), but it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., ever mentioned in any of Marvel Comics, as well as any other company. It includes every single literary work, television show, movie, urban legend, universe, realm, etc. ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc. EVERYTHING is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period. Omni - "all"
http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/omnapp.htm describes a Megaverse too. yeah, LT is above things that are infinite.

3.





yeah okay... lol

Akronawol17 wrote:1. Again, you haven't proven anything. You saying it's true, doesn't make it so. He does need conceptual attacks, just because you couldn't find any proof Beyonder could, doesn't change that.

2. Battler ignores concepts and attacks conceptually all the time, just because he can't bring others back to life means nothing.

3.yes he does. Hax > power, and Beyonder lacks the hax.

4. Saying "lol he's above his understanding" isn't helping you prove anything. Your right, it's not hard to understand. Beyonder just lacks the means to effectively harm Battler, and you can't provide evidence to prove otherwise.

5. He does that all the time. Him and Bernkastel are above the concept of speed, and were using the concept of pain to hurt each other.

1. I proved my point, dude, he clearly was above a concept beyond human comprehension. He beat concepts well above Umineko easily, rather he beat a guy who could beat that said concept, It's simply above what Battler showed.

2. Yes, it means he can't just ignore the concepts of life and death and do as he please, Beyonder can, Battler has those limits. He cna't ignore something like life nad death he aint' gonna defend against someone who is stronger than higher level concepts.

3. Lacks hax...yeah....


4. I have, you are the only one trying to say he loses because you say so. Simple as that.

5. Cool, LT literally exist everywhere, yet Beyonder>>>>>>>>>>>MM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT. Being above the concept of speed doesn't mean must to someone who is omnipresent. Beyonder is as fast as he wants to be. Also again, concepts like pain are still things they are vulnerable to, and again, LT is above any concept.

Battler ain't doing a thing to Beyonder.

Chef_Banchou wrote:Your funny. You can't just say Beyonder can now bypass Endless 9 because "he's above concepts", it doesn't work that way. Beyonder still isn't touching Battler. Also, Golden Key and infinite DC says differently about your "has no way to harm him" claim.

Infinite DC against a guy who clashed against someone who can destroy and re-create the infinite multiverse with a twirl of his finger, okay.

He is above any concept battler knows and above the needed conceptual threshold to get past E9. Battler gets whooped.

Kurohige wrote:

Chef_Banchou wrote:
1. Give me 1, even ONE shred of proof that you must be above a concept to harm it. Because it looks to me that all thats needded to beat those "all powerful conceptual beings" is energy blasts. YOU HAVE PROVEN NOTHING.

2. Endless 9 is infinite, LT isn't. Nuff said. Battler would make LT his bitch.

3. LT is the embodiment of concepts, but nowhere does it say that those concepts are beyond comprehension.

1. Hulk, SS, Glactus on his best day, IG Thanos, Cytorak Juggernaught ect. can't harm LT. LT was harmed by another nigh-omnipotent being and only him, nothing to suggest you can be strong enough to harm him. I proved my point, multiple times now, you not comprehending or choosing not to doesn't change that fact.

2.






"The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your window - get outside and check it out!!), but it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., ever mentioned in any of Marvel Comics, as well as any other company. It includes every single literary work, television show, movie, urban legend, universe, realm, etc. ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc. EVERYTHING is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period. Omni - "all"
http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/omnapp.htm describes a Megaverse too. yeah, LT is above things that are infinite.

3.





yeah okay... lol

Akronawol17 wrote:1. Again, you haven't proven anything. You saying it's true, doesn't make it so. He does need conceptual attacks, just because you couldn't find any proof Beyonder could, doesn't change that.

2. Battler ignores concepts and attacks conceptually all the time, just because he can't bring others back to life means nothing.

3.yes he does. Hax > power, and Beyonder lacks the hax.

4. Saying "lol he's above his understanding" isn't helping you prove anything. Your right, it's not hard to understand. Beyonder just lacks the means to effectively harm Battler, and you can't provide evidence to prove otherwise.

5. He does that all the time. Him and Bernkastel are above the concept of speed, and were using the concept of pain to hurt each other.

1. I proved my point, dude, he clearly was above a concept beyond human comprehension. He beat concepts well above Umineko easily, rather he beat a guy who could beat that said concept, It's simply above what Battler showed.

2. Yes, it means he can't just ignore the concepts of life and death and do as he please, Beyonder can, Battler has those limits. He cna't ignore something like life nad death he aint' gonna defend against someone who is stronger than higher level concepts.

3. Lacks hax...yeah....


4. I have, you are the only one trying to say he loses because you say so. Simple as that.

5. Cool, LT literally exist everywhere, yet Beyonder>>>>>>>>>>>MM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT. Being above the concept of speed doesn't mean must to someone who is omnipresent. Beyonder is as fast as he wants to be. Also again, concepts like pain are still things they are vulnerable to, and again, LT is above any concept.

Battler ain't doing a thing to Beyonder.

1. That isn't answering my question. I want proof that it takes conceptual attacks to hurt conceptual beings in Marvel.

2. I don't give 2 shits what Marvel's shitty writing says, being "above infinity" is ridiculous and stupid. That's like saying someone is above omnipotence, and we both now how retarded that is.

3. Again, nice try, but HE HAS NO CONCEPTUAL ATTACKS, AND NO WAY PAST ENDLESS 9!!! And despite your insistance that Beyonder is, apparently, immune to conceptual attacks, he definetly is not. Golden Key would definetly fuck him up. Beyonder is whooping anything. And you called me biased.

P.S. there is no "needed conceptual threshold" for Endless 9. Anything, anything at all, that is fictional, magical, or impossible in nature, gets instantly negated. Period.

Kurohige wrote:

Chef_Banchou wrote:Your funny. You can't just say Beyonder can now bypass Endless 9 because "he's above concepts", it doesn't work that way. Beyonder still isn't touching Battler. Also, Golden Key and infinite DC says differently about your "has no way to harm him" claim.

Infinite DC against a guy who clashed against someone who can destroy and re-create the infinite multiverse with a twirl of his finger, okay.

He is above any concept battler knows and above the needed conceptual threshold to get past E9. Battler gets whooped.

Look, without any bias and being completely serious about this, here is the fact: unless you can prove that Beyonder can use conceptual attacks, then he can't even touch Battler. If you can't prove that Beyonder can ignore conceptual attacks, then he isn't taking Golden Key. Bottom line, if you can't prove that he can both use conceptual attacks, and ignore them, then Battler wins this, and I'm locking this back up.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
1. That isn't answering my question. I want proof that it takes conceptual attacks to hurt conceptual beings in Marvel.

2. I don't give 2 shits what Marvel's shitty writing says, being "above infinity" is ridiculous and stupid. That's like saying someone is above omnipotence, and we both now how retarded that is.

3. Again, nice try, but HE HAS NO CONCEPTUAL ATTACKS, AND NO WAY PAST ENDLESS 9!!! And despite your insistance that Beyonder is, apparently, immune to conceptual attacks, he definetly is not. Golden Key would definetly fuck him up. Beyonder is whooping anything. And you called me biased.

P.S. there is no "needed conceptual threshold" for Endless 9. Anything, anything at all, that is fictional, magical, or impossible in nature, gets instantly negated. Period.

1. Because to date, LT has been completely indestructible to almost every form of attack, the only thing ever shown to actually hurt him was Thanos wielding the Heart of the Universe. MM made him crap his pants, plus he is on-corporeal, he has no form, it's not intangibility, he is an entity. By default physical attacks could not hurt him.
The Tribunal never shows such respect to other Abstracts and Cosmic Beings.. for he knows, that they are way beneath him..



He survived and saw the destuction and creation of infinite universes was, created upon the dawn of the very first creation. Infinite power/destruction=nothing to LT, other concepts and abstracts are at his will.

2. Regardless of what you think about the writing, it's there and it's canon, have a problem with it then write to marvel. But you not liking it doesn't make it untrue. I already linked you to the entire glossery. I don't like a lot of things that are silly and make no sense in Dies Ares, but Reinhard has some OP things that make no sense at all, but it is what it is.

3. He is already above somoene who can create and destroy the infinite multivers easily, infinit attack power or whatever mean nothing to Beyonder, and fiction in Umineko is reality in Marvel, you can't compare the two.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Look, without any bias and being completely serious about this, here is the fact: unless you can prove that Beyonder can use conceptual attacks, then he can't even touch Battler. If you can't prove that Beyonder can ignore conceptual attacks, then he isn't taking Golden Key. Bottom line, if you can't prove that he can both use conceptual attacks, and ignore them, then Battler wins this, and I'm locking this back up.

I have, he doesn't need them and he can destroy beings above any concept. He doesn't need to use one specific form of attack to get past E9. You cna't use one sided logic, anything beyonder wants it reality, it's not his imagination or warping there are one in the same. Also I gotta go to work atm but if you lock this up over that then I implore you you to revoke your status as a mod, horrible misuse in power and biased

Kurohige wrote:

Chef_Banchou wrote:
1. That isn't answering my question. I want proof that it takes conceptual attacks to hurt conceptual beings in Marvel.

2. I don't give 2 shits what Marvel's shitty writing says, being "above infinity" is ridiculous and stupid. That's like saying someone is above omnipotence, and we both now how retarded that is.

3. Again, nice try, but HE HAS NO CONCEPTUAL ATTACKS, AND NO WAY PAST ENDLESS 9!!! And despite your insistance that Beyonder is, apparently, immune to conceptual attacks, he definetly is not. Golden Key would definetly fuck him up. Beyonder is whooping anything. And you called me biased.

P.S. there is no "needed conceptual threshold" for Endless 9. Anything, anything at all, that is fictional, magical, or impossible in nature, gets instantly negated. Period.

1. Because to date, LT has been completely indestructible to almost every form of attack, the only thing ever shown to actually hurt him was Thanos wielding the Heart of the Universe. MM made him crap his pants, plus he is on-corporeal, he has no form, it's not intangibility, he is an entity. By default physical attacks could not hurt him.
The Tribunal never shows such respect to other Abstracts and Cosmic Beings.. for he knows, that they are way beneath him..



He survived and saw the destuction and creation of infinite universes was, created upon the dawn of the very first creation. Infinite power/destruction=nothing to LT, other concepts and abstracts are at his will.

2. Regardless of what you think about the writing, it's there and it's canon, have a problem with it then write to marvel. But you not liking it doesn't make it untrue. I already linked you to the entire glossery. I don't like a lot of things that are silly and make no sense in Dies Ares, but Reinhard has some OP things that make no sense at all, but it is what it is.

3. He is already above somoene who can create and destroy the infinite multivers easily, infinit attack power or whatever mean nothing to Beyonder, and fiction in Umineko is reality in Marvel, you can't compare the two.

Chef_Banchou wrote:
Look, without any bias and being completely serious about this, here is the fact: unless you can prove that Beyonder can use conceptual attacks, then he can't even touch Battler. If you can't prove that Beyonder can ignore conceptual attacks, then he isn't taking Golden Key. Bottom line, if you can't prove that he can both use conceptual attacks, and ignore them, then Battler wins this, and I'm locking this back up.

I have, he doesn't need them and he can destroy beings above any concept. He doesn't need to use one specific form of attack to get past E9. You cna't use one sided logic, anything beyonder wants it reality, it's not his imagination or warping there are one in the same. Also I gotta go to work atm but if you lock this up over that then I implore you you to revoke your status as a mod, horrible misuse in power and biased

Yet LT got by generic energy blasts...strange, isn't it? It's almost like non-conceptual attacks can beat LT. Also, being "above infinity" makes no sense, its bad writing, and Marvel needs google, apparently, because they needs to learn what infinity means. And just because impossible things are the norm for Beyonder, as well as the Marvel universe, DOES NOT mean that its automatically out of Umineko's tier of power, or above Endless 9. Nice try, but as long as it's considered a fictional attack or ability to normal humans, like us, then Endless 9 nosells it, and that includes Beyonder's big booms and reality warping. And finally, if that is all you can say, then Battler does, indeed, win this. Being above a conceptual entity =/= using conceptual attacks. So again, unless you can give me a fucking scan of Beyonder using a conceptual attack, then its literally a fact that Battler wins. I'm seriously not being biased, I'm just telling you the flatout truth. Despite my avid requests, you have yet to provide me with proof that Beyonder can use conceptual attacks, and ignore them as well. As a result, without actual proof of both, there is literally no way for Beyonder to win here.

Alright, I think this has gone on for long enough. Users have already posted their opinion with their own reasonings and evidence in this thread, which has been just repeating itself over and over again because users can't either A) Agree that the other other is right or B) Agree to disagree.

Considering that the possibility of this thread is just going to continue with people repeating the same thing over and over again that could lead into a flame war, I prefer to stop it here before it gets to that point.

So I'm locking this thread up.