Sai Akuto vs High Priest

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Wasn't Sai only universal? If so then the High Priest wins easily.

No, high-end multiversal, and what would "only universal" means, High Priest himself is just universal lacking , speed and others feats.

Wrong. He destroys the universe by accident with his mere presence, and in order to not do so he has to divide his infinite powers infinitely to make himself just barely containable. He's also above Othinus who creates and ends infinite universes and all possible dimensions. He himself resides in an infinitely infinite dimension of non-assistance outside all existence where concepts of time and distance don't apply since anything less can't contain him or the other Magic Gods. Said dimension despite the description was still somehow destroyed by a character weaker than him and the other Magic Gods.

Who needs anymore feats when your already on that level? but if you must know he's magnitudes above casual FTL+ feats performed by Ollerus and 50/50 Othinus and can logically utilize attacks that ignore speed or have infinite speed like Othinus' crossbows, etc.

Dat downplay.

Now are we wanking, arent we?

First, he can destroy the world by accident, sure thing, waht about it?

Second Othinus never created a infinites universes, she reconstructed the same world an unknown number of times, and recreating =/= creating , unless you get me straight feats that make her anywhere that.

Ollerus has no consistent speed feats, can't really take all the text saying that "should be able to do that" or "looks like that an infinite something" as a legit feat, thats a no-go for a legit feat.

And that dimension was "infinitely infite" how so, when was never explicit said that place held any size? Like you said that dimension had no time and space to begin with, and nothing implied that it was infinite, all that was said is that it existed somewhere that Othinus was not able to reach.


Aleister weaker? Pfff.

Chaos, your getting very close to insults. Please try to keep things civil.

Chaos wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:

EG_Sage wrote:what i remember from the LN is when Sai becomes the Law of Identity he gets the Writer ability.

Writer - the ability to see and control the worlds as information, like to write a story in fiction. Endless logical possibilities could include anything that can be described. There are universes of different sizes , (through infinite space) with all sorts of laws. There are stories that include parallel worlds, infinite dimensional spaces, as well as foreign gods , for whom all this is nothing more than fiction (and even lower beings are able to think in terms of an infinitely dense infinity). Stories can be raised to the power, forming a structure where the real worlds for some creatures are only dreams or fiction for the second, whose worlds are also a story for the third. This hierarchy can aspire even to infinity, but the law of identity will always be higher than that of any level.

Similar to Featherine's power or higher.

Yeah sounds even higher than Featherine. Possibly higher than even Demonbane or Hajun.

Not quite, Sai Akuto searched in infinites universes, for one that humanity would survive, he didn't find a single one and couldn't really do a single thing about it, he does can create a infinite number of universes and throw at your head.

But nowhere near metaversal, high-end multiversal at best. And please Hajun is absolutely broken , even if he was able to have the feats necessary, Hajun is a nigh-omnipotent that only lost because his tumor merged with a hadou god at the end, and his tumor was the only way to weaken him, besides that he would scratch anything and everything effortyless.

False.

Writer - the ability to see and control the worlds as information, like to write a story in fiction. Endless logical possibilities could include anything that can be described. There are universes of different sizes , (through infinite space) with all sorts of laws. There are stories that include parallel worlds, infinite dimensional spaces, as well as foreign gods , for whom all this is nothing more than fiction (and even lower beings are able to think in terms of an infinitely dense infinity). Stories can be raised to the power, forming a structure where the real worlds for some creatures are only dreams or fiction for the second, whose worlds are also a story for the third. This hierarchy can aspire even to infinity, but the law of identity will always be higher than that of any level.

Chaos wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Wasn't Sai only universal? If so then the High Priest wins easily.

No, high-end multiversal, and what would "only universal" means, High Priest himself is just universal lacking , speed and others feats.

Wrong. He destroys the universe by accident with his mere presence, and in order to not do so he has to divide his infinite powers infinitely to make himself just barely containable. He's also above Othinus who creates and ends infinite universes and all possible dimensions. He himself resides in an infinitely infinite dimension of non-assistance outside all existence where concepts of time and distance don't apply since anything less can't contain him or the other Magic Gods. Said dimension despite the description was still somehow destroyed by a character weaker than him and the other Magic Gods.

Who needs anymore feats when your already on that level? but if you must know he's magnitudes above casual FTL+ feats performed by Ollerus and 50/50 Othinus and can logically utilize attacks that ignore speed or have infinite speed like Othinus' crossbows, etc.

Dat downplay.

Now are we wanking, arent we?

First, he can destroy the world by accident, sure thing, waht about it?

Second Othinus never created a infinites universes, she reconstructed the same world an unknown number of times, and recreating =/= creating , unless you get me straight feats that make her anywhere that.

Ollerus has no consistent speed feats, can't really take all the text saying that "should be able to do that" or "looks like that an infinite  something" as a legit feat, thats a no-go  for a legit feat.

And that dimension was "infinitely infite" how so, when was never  explicit said that place held any size? Like you said that dimension had no time and space to begin with, and nothing implied that it was infinite, all that was said is that it existed somewhere that Othinus was not able to reach.


Aleister weaker? Pfff.

For starters, don't resort to insults buddy, this is your only warning.

World is quite clearly is referring to universe, hell likely even all possible existence.

"The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

(Unrealistic ideals don’t matter. What exactly are you supposed to do against a monster like that!?)

It was absolute overkill.

It went far beyond an overflow error."

Othinus sure did create infinite universes. Countless other worlds beyond the one layer that makes up the Index verse, she ended them all and could recreate them infinitely. Said so plenty of times. First underlined quote even flat out says her powers go beyond a single universe, which Thor than goes on to say was what his own power encompassed.

Stop it. I don’t like being praised like that. You saw Othinus at full power, didn’t you? If the predicted specs I calculated out are accurate, her power would go well beyond mine which is limited to the world we’re in now. How many times was the world destroyed on your way here? In fact, how’d you even defeat her when she had her lance? …No, merely winning in a fistfight wouldn’t get you back to this world.”

It was true that 100% Almighty Thor would likely be killed in an instant if he faced 100% Magic God Othinus. Thor ruled a single world while Othinus created infinite worlds. That was an obvious and insurmountable wall.

But that was not the current problem.

Almighty Thor stood before Kamijou as a real threat and Othinus could no longer use her power. To move on, Kamijou would have to defeat him with the fists of a puny human.

“Just to be clear, I don’t designate the coordinates. For one thing, coordinates on paper are meaningless in an ever-expanding universe.

Wrong again. This is a fight between 50/50 Othinus and Ollerus, they were moving at such speeds that countless attacks were made in not even second and time and space were distorting.

The girl known as a magic god closed her single eye just once.

"It looked like she was trying to take her mind off of some truly hideous clown.

An instant later, the slight space between them was filled with tens of thousands or even hundreds of millions of strange explosions.

If the theory of relativity that summarized the relationship between time and space would allow a black hole-like object to exist under certain special circumstances, the extreme compression of space by their frightening clash may have twisted the continuity of time.

That was how extreme this series of attacks was."

I'll post it later, but her crossbow shots move after "eternal acceleration" which obviously implies infinite speed.

Slightest gaps of said world go on for infinity and the concepts of time and distance don't apply because said world is beyond all existance as non-existance itselff

"It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few voices lurked within where no one could interfere. Othinus and Kamijou Touma had been wrong about one thing.

They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and leaving nothing at all behind.

But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one last phase had existed.

“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here, remember? And I can’t leave regardless. Even if I did, I’d just end up gathering unwanted attention on a global scale like Othinus. I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”

“Does the same go for the others?”

“Old man, did you start forgetting things once you became a mummy? The zombie girl, the chimera, and everyone are here. It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”

The conversation came to an end. In that place that did not exist in the world, they prepared to scatter apart.

“If you think about it, you could call this our way of being ecological. We do it because the world is too small for us to live in, but it isn’t easy putting up with being here.”

Crowley sure is weaker than them. He got his ass kicked by High Priest first round and barely escaped with his life. Second round, he only won via High Priest nerfing himself infinitely so and even than it required prep. Should also be known High Priest was still very confident in taking him even as he is. Thanks for showing you don't know shit about Index. And if your gonna resort to insults this easily, your gonna have a bad time.

Another quote of her creating countless worlds which we've clearly established means universe along with her feat of controlling all dimensions. Do note all higher and lowers dimensions beyond the 3 dimensional world we perceive exist in Index and you have characters magnitude weaker than Othinus who can affect all of them like Carissa with Curtana Original's All Dimension Severing spell.

“Have you forgotten?” Othinus sounded almost utterly exasperated. “This is the Dianoid. The entire building is made of carbon materials. That means you don’t need control over every phase, every dimension, and every element to manipulate everything around you.

“But have you forgotten? How many digits’ worth of worlds do you think I made and remade when I was settling things with you? If an equal Magic God existed in this world and this age, they would have interfered back then.”

Again, Index is one world of many that exist beyond it like Heaven, Hell, Takama-Ga-Hara, the Pure World, etc.

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Wasn't Sai only universal? If so then the High Priest wins easily.

No, high-end multiversal, and what would "only universal" means, High Priest himself is just universal lacking , speed and others feats.

Wrong. He destroys the universe by accident with his mere presence, and in order to not do so he has to divide his infinite powers infinitely to make himself just barely containable. He's also above Othinus who creates and ends infinite universes and all possible dimensions. He himself resides in an infinitely infinite dimension of non-assistance outside all existence where concepts of time and distance don't apply since anything less can't contain him or the other Magic Gods. Said dimension despite the description was still somehow destroyed by a character weaker than him and the other Magic Gods.

Who needs anymore feats when your already on that level? but if you must know he's magnitudes above casual FTL+ feats performed by Ollerus and 50/50 Othinus and can logically utilize attacks that ignore speed or have infinite speed like Othinus' crossbows, etc.

Dat downplay.

Now are we wanking, arent we?

First, he can destroy the world by accident, sure thing, waht about it?

Second Othinus never created a infinites universes, she reconstructed the same world an unknown number of times, and recreating =/= creating , unless you get me straight feats that make her anywhere that.

Ollerus has no consistent speed feats, can't really take all the text saying that "should be able to do that" or "looks like that an infinite  something" as a legit feat, thats a no-go  for a legit feat.

And that dimension was "infinitely infite" how so, when was never  explicit said that place held any size? Like you said that dimension had no time and space to begin with, and nothing implied that it was infinite, all that was said is that it existed somewhere that Othinus was not able to reach.


Aleister weaker? Pfff.

But that was not the current problem.



Wrong again. This is a fight between 50/50 Othinus and Ollerus, they were moving at such speeds that countless attacks were made in not even second and time and space were distorting.

The girl known as a magic god closed her single eye just once.

"It looked like she was trying to take her mind off of some truly hideous clown.

An instant later, the slight space between them was filled with tens of thousands or even hundreds of millions of strange explosions.

If the theory of relativity that summarized the relationship between time and space would allow a black hole-like object to exist under certain special circumstances, the extreme compression of space by their frightening clash may have twisted the continuity of time.

That was how extreme this series of attacks was."

I'll post it later, but her crossbow shots move after "eternal acceleration" which obviously implies infinite speed.

Slightest gaps of said world go on for infinity and the concepts of time and distance don't apply because said world is beyond all existance as non-existance itselff

"It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few voices lurked within where no one could interfere. Othinus and Kamijou Touma had been wrong about one thing.

They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and leaving nothing at all behind.

But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one last phase had existed.

“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here, remember? And I can’t leave regardless. Even if I did, I’d just end up gathering unwanted attention on a global scale like Othinus. I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”

“Does the same go for the others?”

“Old man, did you start forgetting things once you became a mummy? The zombie girl, the chimera, and everyone are here. It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”

The conversation came to an end. In that place that did not exist in the world, they prepared to scatter apart.

“If you think about it, you could call this our way of being ecological. We do it because the world is too small for us to live in, but it isn’t easy putting up with being here.”

Crowley sure is weaker than them. He got his ass kicked by High Priest first round and barely escaped with his life. Second round, he only won via High Priest nerfing himself infinitely so and even than it required prep. Should also be known High Priest was still very confident in taking him even as he is. Thanks for showing you don't know shit about Index. And if your gonna resort to insults this easily, your gonna have a bad time.

Now i don't quite understand where i insulted you , but if i was rude sorry about that.

Othinus sure did create infinite universes. Countless other worlds beyond the one layer that makes up the Index verse, she ended them all and could recreate them infinitely. Said so plenty of times. First underlined quote even flat out says her powers go beyond a single universe, which Thor than goes on to say was what his own power encompassed.

Stop it. I don’t like being praised like that. You saw Othinus at full power, didn’t you? If the predicted specs I calculated out are accurate, her power would go well beyond mine which is limited to the world we’re in now. How many times was the world destroyed on your way here? In fact, how’d you even defeat her when she had her lance? …No, merely winning in a fistfight wouldn’t get you back to this world.”

It was true that 100% Almighty Thor would likely be killed in an instant if he faced 100% Magic God Othinus. Thor ruled a single world while Othinus created infinite worlds. That was an obvious and insurmountable wall.

But that was not the current problem.

Almighty Thor stood before Kamijou as a real threat and Othinus could no longer use her power. To move on, Kamijou would have to defeat him with the fists of a puny human.

“Just to be clear, I don’t designate the coordinates. For one thing, coordinates on paper are meaningless in an ever-expanding universe.

I don't see this as any referal for her creating an infinite universes , Touma had in his imagine breaker sort of a backup of the world where he was, what othinus did was not creating infinites universes, but recreating the same over infinitely, that is solely diferent,  for example you can take Hades from Saint Seiya and see that he creates a infinitely expanding universe, but what Othinus did was to erase that single said world and reconstruct based on that, the world was only able to come back because that world was still able to be recovered. Creating a infinite number of universes is another matter of fact, she was able to create endless world for touma, but was never stated that world was a new world and there was infinite worlds you can't assume because one can recreate infinitely a world that he will be able to create  a infinite number of new worlds, although she couldn't create the world that she desired at all

I won't deny the speed issue it seems rather vague honestly.

Its been a while since i read those volumes of ToAru so i might check them off more and take other opinions.

You did insult him, by calling him a wanker. It may not seem fair, but that is an insult. This is your first warning. Like i said, try to keep things civil please.

Chaos wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

ChaosKnight75 wrote:

Chaos wrote:

GeneralVan wrote:Wasn't Sai only universal? If so then the High Priest wins easily.

No, high-end multiversal, and what would "only universal" means, High Priest himself is just universal lacking , speed and others feats.

Wrong. He destroys the universe by accident with his mere presence, and in order to not do so he has to divide his infinite powers infinitely to make himself just barely containable. He's also above Othinus who creates and ends infinite universes and all possible dimensions. He himself resides in an infinitely infinite dimension of non-assistance outside all existence where concepts of time and distance don't apply since anything less can't contain him or the other Magic Gods. Said dimension despite the description was still somehow destroyed by a character weaker than him and the other Magic Gods.

Who needs anymore feats when your already on that level? but if you must know he's magnitudes above casual FTL+ feats performed by Ollerus and 50/50 Othinus and can logically utilize attacks that ignore speed or have infinite speed like Othinus' crossbows, etc.

Dat downplay.

Now are we wanking, arent we?

First, he can destroy the world by accident, sure thing, waht about it?

Second Othinus never created a infinites universes, she reconstructed the same world an unknown number of times, and recreating =/= creating , unless you get me straight feats that make her anywhere that.

Ollerus has no consistent speed feats, can't really take all the text saying that "should be able to do that" or "looks like that an infinite  something" as a legit feat, thats a no-go  for a legit feat.

And that dimension was "infinitely infite" how so, when was never  explicit said that place held any size? Like you said that dimension had no time and space to begin with, and nothing implied that it was infinite, all that was said is that it existed somewhere that Othinus was not able to reach.


Aleister weaker? Pfff.

But that was not the current problem.



Wrong again. This is a fight between 50/50 Othinus and Ollerus, they were moving at such speeds that countless attacks were made in not even second and time and space were distorting.

The girl known as a magic god closed her single eye just once.

"It looked like she was trying to take her mind off of some truly hideous clown.

An instant later, the slight space between them was filled with tens of thousands or even hundreds of millions of strange explosions.

If the theory of relativity that summarized the relationship between time and space would allow a black hole-like object to exist under certain special circumstances, the extreme compression of space by their frightening clash may have twisted the continuity of time.

That was how extreme this series of attacks was."

I'll post it later, but her crossbow shots move after "eternal acceleration" which obviously implies infinite speed.

Slightest gaps of said world go on for infinity and the concepts of time and distance don't apply because said world is beyond all existance as non-existance itselff

"It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few voices lurked within where no one could interfere. Othinus and Kamijou Touma had been wrong about one thing.

They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and leaving nothing at all behind.

But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one last phase had existed.

“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here, remember? And I can’t leave regardless. Even if I did, I’d just end up gathering unwanted attention on a global scale like Othinus. I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”

“Does the same go for the others?”

“Old man, did you start forgetting things once you became a mummy? The zombie girl, the chimera, and everyone are here. It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”

The conversation came to an end. In that place that did not exist in the world, they prepared to scatter apart.

“If you think about it, you could call this our way of being ecological. We do it because the world is too small for us to live in, but it isn’t easy putting up with being here.”

Crowley sure is weaker than them. He got his ass kicked by High Priest first round and barely escaped with his life. Second round, he only won via High Priest nerfing himself infinitely so and even than it required prep. Should also be known High Priest was still very confident in taking him even as he is. Thanks for showing you don't know shit about Index. And if your gonna resort to insults this easily, your gonna have a bad time.

Now i don't quite understand where i insulted you , but if i was rude sorry about that.

Othinus sure did create infinite universes. Countless other worlds beyond the one layer that makes up the Index verse, she ended them all and could recreate them infinitely. Said so plenty of times. First underlined quote even flat out says her powers go beyond a single universe, which Thor than goes on to say was what his own power encompassed.

Stop it. I don’t like being praised like that. You saw Othinus at full power, didn’t you? If the predicted specs I calculated out are accurate, her power would go well beyond mine which is limited to the world we’re in now. How many times was the world destroyed on your way here? In fact, how’d you even defeat her when she had her lance? …No, merely winning in a fistfight wouldn’t get you back to this world.”

It was true that 100% Almighty Thor would likely be killed in an instant if he faced 100% Magic God Othinus. Thor ruled a single world while Othinus created infinite worlds. That was an obvious and insurmountable wall.

But that was not the current problem.

Almighty Thor stood before Kamijou as a real threat and Othinus could no longer use her power. To move on, Kamijou would have to defeat him with the fists of a puny human.

“Just to be clear, I don’t designate the coordinates. For one thing, coordinates on paper are meaningless in an ever-expanding universe.

I don't see this as any referal for her creating an infinite universes , Touma had in his imagine breaker sort of a backup of the world where he was, what othinus did was not creating infinites universes, but recreating the same over infinitely, that is solely diferent,  for example you can take Hades from Saint Seiya and see that he creates a infinitely expanding universe, but what Othinus did was to erase that single said world and reconstruct based on that, the world was only able to come back because that world was still able to be recovered. Creating a infinite number of universes is another matter of fact, she was able to create endless world for touma, but was never stated that world was a new world and there was infinite worlds you can't assume because one can recreate infinitely a world that he will be able to create  a infinite number of new worlds, although she couldn't create the world that she desired at all

I won't deny the speed issue it seems rather vague honestly.

Its been a while since i read those volumes of ToAru so i might check them off more and take other opinions.

You just called me a wanker. WTF do you think you meant when you said that?

Speed feats are rather vague when it's quite clear whats meant? Is that another way of you saying you can't disprove me once I show evidence that backs up my "wanking"?

Nope. Thor says Touma would have no hope of returning to this world when he fought Othinus, Thor says Othinus power went beyond this single world that makes up the verse, countless other worlds beyond the universe that makes up Index are confirmed to exist (Heaven, Hell, Takama-Ga-Hara, Asgard, the Pure World, etc as well as countless higher and lower dimensions that were all under Othinus control, again its mentioned when Othinus asks Touma how many digits worth of worlds, you know plural for world, she made and remade, etc. Othinus could add on and create as many more different universes by adding on as many layers as she wants (one layer makes up the Index verse and even other verses like Marvel shares this logic) while ending them all whenever she feels like it.  

Othinus destroyed all layers when she made it all into a pitch black world that was believed to be the result of destroying all of existence. Then we see one last layer remained, the infinitely infinite layer that was already non-existent to begin with where the other Magic Gods resides to keep themselves away from all possible reality since they do what Othinus did by accident.

Really, The proof that backs up what I'm saying is everywhere. Don't know where your getting your logic from. According to you, Kamachi should have said "Thor ruled a single world, Othinus could create/recreate it". Not "Thor ruled a single world, Othinus created infinite worlds which is what made the "insurmountable difference in power" between them and just how far beyond she was from the single world that makes up the Index verse.

Don't ever accuse me of assuming with a series I know and when I'm posting exactly what's said countless times.

Sure theres a lot of worlds in To aru universe that exist, but what about it? She can control, the words are made and remade , but she never created the scratch, she was in a infinite pitch black but she was still unware the other Magic Gods that extended beyond her realm Touma right hand had the setup to remade the world as was before, what she did was to recreate infinite worlds using the last one as reference, she did have a lot control over reality, but she couldn't extend it to the realm of the Magic Gods, limited. If she was able to reproduce an infinite number of universes she would not have done everything that happened in her fight with Touma.

Theres a misunderstanding its not because she is said to create and recreate, with control over all those worlds that she has the power of a infinite universes, as much that she had to go world by world against touma when she could have just made separate realities over creating the a single new world in the pitch black for touma, she was unable to acess the existence of other Magic Gods and her powers were restrained to that single pitch black, that was never stated to be everything, there was the realm of magic god and also aleister and aiwass in outisde of the pitch black, you can easly interpret it as a fallacy of her powers.

Theres one more, in the pitch black the laws of time space still existed, and wasn't removed, even thought she could control everything ,but in the final fight was still restricted to the laws of that world, that is just enough to say that her powers are restricted to the worlds linked, to the touma's world, but anything outside of that was completely out of her range and awareness,call it as much you like theres no infinite world that she scratched and her range and powers are fairly limited to soem degree, its pretty ridiculous to think someone that can create infinite multiverse still needing to use speed and other things instead of instant attacks by bypassing time and space.

Chaos wrote:Sure theres a lot of worlds in To aru universe that exist, but what about it? She can control,  the words are made and remade , but she never created the scratch, she was in a infinite pitch black but she was still unware the other Magic Gods that extended beyond her realm  Touma right hand had the setup to remade the world as was before, what she did was to recreate infinite worlds using the last one as reference, she did have a lot control over reality, but she couldn't extend it to the realm of the Magic Gods, limited. If she was able to reproduce an infinite number of universes she would not have done everything that happened in her fight with Touma.

Theres a misunderstanding its not because she is said to create and recreate, with control over all those worlds that she has the power of a infinite universes, as much that she had to go world by world against touma when she could have just made separate realities over creating the a single new world in the pitch black for touma, she was unable to acess the existence of other Magic Gods and her powers were restrained to that single pitch black, that was never stated to be everything, there was the realm of magic god and also aleister and aiwass in outisde of the pitch black, you can easly interpret it as a fallacy of her powers.

Theres one more, in the pitch black the laws of time space still existed, and wasn't removed, even thought she could control everything ,but in the final fight was still restricted to the laws of that world, that is just enough to say that her powers are restricted to the worlds linked, to the touma's world, but anything outside of that was completely out of her range and awareness,call it as much you like theres no infinite world that she scratched and her range and powers are fairly limited to soem degree, its pretty ridiculous to think someone that can create infinite multiverse still needing to use speed and other things instead of instant attacks by bypassing time and space.

Touma's right hand was the only way to restore the world he knew that was among the ones Othinus destroyed and return to it.

We already went over this. Safe for that one infinite, non-existant Phase of the Magic Gods that resided beyond all existance, space, and time and also because she's inferior to them, Othinus had her own multiverse she could freely play around with and do whatever she wanted, including creating and ending anything she wanted. The book flat out says that endless pitch black void she made was as a result of ending all layers besides the aforementioned one of the Magic Gods . Ending all worlds to make it a singular void of nothingness. There's no fallacy, your grossly overthinking with ways to downplay it. She did recreate them from scratch. That's literally her role as a Creator God and she did so by remaking countless worlds after ending everything and creating them from that black void of nothingness.

Wrong again she could do whatever she wanted. That included messing with time and achieving infinite speed when you just said she couldn't. Time is a dimension. Othinus had control over all dimensions and ended them all when she "ended absolutely everything" There were no concepts or dimensions that could applied in nothingness, your referring to when she remakes everything

"Magic God Othinus could control everything. Without exaggeration, she controlled the world itself. If she wanted to, she could have galaxies collide to kill Kamijou Touma. Or she could break the bonds between the particles making up his body and cause his very existence to disperse. If she was the slightest bit dissatisfied with something, she could turn back time, re-lay the rails of fate that led to the future, and create the exact result she wanted."

Here's the description of a Magic God. Do note, Othinus overcomes the Omnipotence Paradox w/ Gungnir. Also note, yes I agree she is't truly Omnipotent as we've both gone over her limits, but all the powers associated with them including the power to do nearly anything she wants applies. I believe you call that Nigh-Omnipotence.

"Being a Majin is akin to being the purest, most perfect existence that encompasses every possibility. However, because of this, the Majin can also control both positive and negative possibilities.[6] In essence, the Majin has an equal chance of attaining the possibility of succeeding as well as failing, making everything relating to the Majin's magic a 50/50 shot. This comes from the principle of the Omnipotence Paradox, which asks if an omnipotent being can do anything, can it deny itself; i.e: could an omnipotent being create a rock it can't lift?"

And the description of her crossbows

What exactly could this be compared to?

Perhaps a super-long railgun that targeted someone on the planet’s surface after eternal acceleration using straight guiderails stretching from one end of the universe to the other.

Perhaps a singularity weapon that created destruction unexplainable with Newtonian physics by directly messing with the smallest particles dealing with mass and motion such as the bosons and the Higgs particle.

In all likelihood, expressing it with words was meaningless.

Even if one gathered everything that could be expressed with words, it was unlikely one could shoot down that crossbow."

If your gonna use Touma as an excuse, please know the details. There wasn't a thing he could do against her but die non-stop over and over before repeating the cycles of going through all those worlds. It got to the point where Othinus was getting weary of the boredom from fighting such a weak opponent. She couldn't just kill him for good as it wouldn't solve the issue of the Imagine Breaker which would interfere with her and she had no control over it or where it would appear next, thus she tried breaking him. Eventually, it got to the point where she had to start making him believe he could have a chance after acquiring all this experience rather than just kill him again. And she still beats him. And even plays around it by removing all matter from existance so that the Imagine Breaker transfers to her.

Than she just gives it all up. Touma even flat out admits Othinus gave him the victory.

BTW, I love how your post ignores almost all the evidence I went out of my way to find and post.

Wrong again she could do whatever she wanted. That included messing with time and achieving infinite speed when you just said she couldn't. Time is a dimension. Othinus had control over all dimensions and ended them all when she "ended absolutely everything" There were no concepts or dimensions that could applied in nothingness, your referring to when she remakes everything

Thats not what i meant in first place, she had control over everythink, yeah i readed that here and in the novel, but those fancy worlds doesn't really means everything you say about that.

of ending all layers besides the aforementioned one of the Magic Gods . Ending all worlds to make it a singular void of nothingness.

Are you telling me that includes, concepts and some other things? Because no thats not how it works, layers of world can mean just paralel worlds or dimensions, her last showdown, in the whole pitch black there was concepts and others things around, she could maybe control those layers, but judging that she destroyed  everything is really wanking, theres nothing in the series before and outside of those words to support it, if all concepts of the world were to broken, that would never had happened the way it happened, i can't just take a word "she ended all dimensions" and say that this is indeed the concept itself, maybe in the laws of the world she could end that, but not the concepts itself.

Here's the description of a Magic God. Do note, Othinus overcomes the Omnipotence Paradox w/ Gungnir. Also note, yes I agree she is't truly Omnipotent as we've both gone over her limits, but all the powers associated with them including the power to do nearly anything she wants applies. I believe you call that Nigh-Omnipotence.

No, not Nigh-Omnipotence, if she want that title she needs at least to reach anything and everything without fallacy, theres no such Nigh-Omnipotence that can't reach some dimension or affects concepts, and please no Concepts are no dimensions of the  world, no such thing, the thing with magic gods being unable to walk in the world without making theyselves weaker also is a contradiction to night-omnipotence powers AND the abilitiy to ignore or control all layers of the world, since all magic gods have control over the worlds those things should mean nothing, its a contradiction when they have to weak themlves to exist somewhere that they have absolute control, no matter how you see its a fallacy on what their powers are supposed to mean, hell they couldn't even get rid of Saint German right.


BTW, i love arguing with you too, i've seem that before, and you know fancy words means nothing,those posts of yours don't really means anything, because saying all those words are good and all, but what about the rest of the history? What about the contradictions that it showed in what their powers are supossed to mean? I'm not here arguing over those words, but their fallacy as being used all the time as legit feats.

Chaos wrote:

Wrong again she could do whatever she wanted. That included messing with time and achieving infinite speed when you just said she couldn't. Time is a dimension. Othinus had control over all dimensions and ended them all when she "ended absolutely everything" There were no concepts or dimensions that could applied in nothingness, your referring to when she remakes everything

Thats not what i meant in first place, she had control over everythink, yeah i readed that here and in the novel, but those fancy worlds doesn't really means everything you say about that.

of ending all layers besides the aforementioned one of the Magic Gods . Ending all worlds to make it a singular void of nothingness.

Are you telling me that includes, concepts and some other things? Because no thats not how it works, layers of world can mean just paralel worlds or dimensions, her last showdown, in the whole pitch black there was concepts and others things around, she could maybe control those layers, but judging that she destroyed  everything is really wanking, theres nothing in the series before and outside of those words to support it, if all concepts of the world were to broken, that would never had happened the way it happened, i can't just take a word "she ended all dimensions" and say that this is indeed the concept itself, maybe in the laws of the world she could end that, but not the concepts itself.

Here's the description of a Magic God. Do note, Othinus overcomes the Omnipotence Paradox w/ Gungnir. Also note, yes I agree she is't truly Omnipotent as we've both gone over her limits, but all the powers associated with them including the power to do nearly anything she wants applies. I believe you call that Nigh-Omnipotence.

No, not Nigh-Omnipotence, if she want that title she needs at least to reach anything and everything without fallacy, theres no such Nigh-Omnipotence that can't reach some dimension or affects concepts, and please no Concepts are no dimensions of the  world, no such thing, the thing with magic gods being unable to walk in the world without making theyselves weaker also is a contradiction to night-omnipotence powers AND the abilitiy to ignore or control all layers of the world, since all magic gods have control over the worlds those things should mean nothing, its a contradiction when they have to weak themlves to exist somewhere that they have absolute control, no matter how you see its a fallacy on what their powers are supposed to mean, hell they couldn't even get rid of Saint German right.


BTW, i love arguing with you too, i've seem that before, and you know fancy words means nothing,those posts of yours don't really means anything, because saying all those words are good and all, but what about the rest of the history? What about the contradictions that it showed in what their powers are supossed to mean? I'm not here arguing over those words, but their fallacy as being used all the time as legit feats.

Not using fancy words here buddy. I'm saying exactly what's stated. Here I'll say what she did in a non-fancy way you'll hopefully understand, straight from the book: "Everything was truly destroyed." That includes every dimension and universe safe for the one the other Magic Gods exist in and I already posted that Othinus had control over everything, including all other dimensions. There was nothing in that pitch black world, certainly no concepts either. That's what it means to end everything. It was all an endless, empty space with no dimensions. Sure she's Nigh-Omnipotent. By definition, it's a being that can do nearly anything safe for a few restrictions, which she fits the bill perfectly. And I already explained exactly why she couldn't reach or affect that phase of the Magic Gods. It contains beings stronger than her and is beyond all existence which is what she was limited to as non-existence itself. There's really no fallacy like you love to throw when I've answered all your posts with scans perfectly

You just ignored the fallacys i pointed in the stronger beings than Othinus, i have no point to continue on this if you're gonna to ignore what contradicts their meanings.

And "everything was truly destroyed" , no that doesn't imply concepts, or anything beyond that, i can just say i've seem works and works that used the same wording and they didn't even bother to destroy concepts and other things.

Chaos wrote:You just ignored the fallacys i pointed in the stronger beings than Othinus, i have no point to continue on this  if you're gonna to ignore what contradicts their meanings.

And "everything was truly destroyed" , no that doesn't imply concepts, or anything beyond that, i can just say i've seem works and works that used the same wording and they didn't even bother to destroy concepts and other things.

Sure it does. You clearly don't know what a concept means do you? It's an idea. Prove to me anything existed in that black void of nothingness as a result of any and all concept of existence itself being erased. Most of the concepts you mentioned cannot be applied to that environment. No dimensions can be applied. Time doesn't exist nor does space, etc. unless she chooses to bring them back via remaking reality. BTW were way off topic.

Just to point something out. This doesn't mean anything in particular, but whenever I see something of any sorts Othinus-related, I always see CK(75) as the first (and many times ONLY) person to jump to her defense.
Honestly, I don't think Chaos is wrong, it's how he views the text.

Sometimes it seems like you (CK) just take the liberty of using your interpretations as absolute. (An extreme example of this is Umineko, which I still say is almost unusable in vs debates due to the amount of interpretation that comes with it. One side sees all-powerful god lolis, the other sees (lol) lolis). Sometimes when it's just you debating for Index, it seems like you have free rein. "Pretty-sure" and "Obviously means" doesn't cut it.


We need more people just as knowledgeable on Index, and at the same time, we can't dismiss what others think either.
Othinus debates tend to fly all over the place depending on the forum (Her profiles tend to do this as well). Saying what you think a character is capable of, and just dismissing what everyone else thinks of the same character is rather half-assed. No one forum is any more competent then the other (So you can't just "lol OBD" and call it a day), so don't do the same thing with people.

tl:dr - Remember GetBackers

Walkure wrote:Just to point something out. This doesn't mean anything in particular, but whenever I see something of any sorts Othinus-related, I always see CK(75) as the first (and many times ONLY) person to jump to her defense.
Honestly, I don't think Chaos is wrong, it's how he views the text.

Sometimes it seems like you (CK) just take the liberty of using your interpretations as absolute. (An extreme example of this is Umineko, which I still say is almost unusable in vs debates due to the amount of interpretation that comes with it. One side sees all-powerful god lolis, the other sees (lol) lolis). Sometimes when it's just you debating for Index, it seems like you have free rein. "Pretty-sure" and "Obviously means" doesn't cut it.


We need more people just as knowledgeable on Index, and at the same time, we can't dismiss what others think either.
Othinus debates tend to fly all over the place depending on the forum (Her profiles tend to do this as well). Saying what you think a character is capable of, and just dismissing what everyone else thinks of the same character is rather half-assed. No one forum is any more competent then the other (So you can't just "lol OBD" and call it a day), so don't do the same thing with people.

tl:dr - Remember GetBackers

Nice essay. What I do is called thinking for myself and actually doing my homework rather than flock to what the majority agrees when I know it's wrong. And it kinda helps if your calling out those sites, you've already proven their just that, completely dismissive. Plenty of others that think Othinus is that strong too, including people I've never met. I just happen to have been a particularly active one.

Lulz at comparing this to Getbackers. If your anywhere as savvy as your trying to portray yourself right now, a real comparison would be me to any other informed fan that's giving people actual facts, especially the ignorant ones that need OBD or corrupt Vs Battle Wiki to think for themselves, about the true capabilities of a series. Whats nice is that I've also backed it up with plenty of texts pretty much every time I make a claim so that none of the "interpretation" that every "debater" seems to love accusing me of doing, often as their only argument, is thrown out the window.

I like it this way really. It just always ensures me there's something to do. Doing great so far, especially since a lot of times, there's often a really good reason as to why I say "Pretty sure" and "Obviously means." You know, me proving my point? What debating is all about?

Walkure wrote:Just to point something out. This doesn't mean anything in particular, but whenever I see something of any sorts Othinus-related, I always see CK(75) as the first (and many times ONLY) person to jump to her defense.
Honestly, I don't think Chaos is wrong, it's how he views the text.

Sometimes it seems like you (CK) just take the liberty of using your interpretations as absolute. (An extreme example of this is Umineko, which I still say is almost unusable in vs debates due to the amount of interpretation that comes with it. One side sees all-powerful god lolis, the other sees (lol) lolis). Sometimes when it's just you debating for Index, it seems like you have free rein. "Pretty-sure" and "Obviously means" doesn't cut it.


We need more people just as knowledgeable on Index, and at the same time, we can't dismiss what others think either.
Othinus debates tend to fly all over the place depending on the forum (Her profiles tend to do this as well). Saying what you think a character is capable of, and just dismissing what everyone else thinks of the same character is rather half-assed. No one forum is any more competent then the other (So you can't just "lol OBD" and call it a day), so don't do the same thing with people.

tl:dr - Remember GetBackers

ChaosKnight actually shows quotes that back up his claims. He makes claims, and he shows evidence to back them up. If you're going to try claiming his interpretations are wrong, you're going to have to show your own evidence.

As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Zarathustra wrote:
As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Sorry, but no. The OBD is not nearly as bad as some people claim it is. Their wiki was highly innacurate and most profiles needed some revision. The wiki was nuked, thus purging all that erroneous info so it's no longer a problem. The Battledome itself is pretty okay for a versus site.

If you wanna name a debating shithole, then name Moviecodec.

trexalfa wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:
As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Sorry, but no. The OBD is not nearly as bad as some people claim it is. Their wiki was highly innacurate and most profiles needed some revision. The wiki was nuked, thus purging all that erroneous info so it's no longer a problem. The Battledome itself is pretty okay for a versus site.

If you wanna name a debating shithole, then name Moviecodec.

I've seen battles on the OBD. No one has a clue on what they're talking about. MVC is actually not that bad. At least they know they're full of shit, and they do have a couple of decent guys that know what they're talking about. I post there as a guest at times.

Zarathustra wrote:

trexalfa wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:
As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Sorry, but no. The OBD is not nearly as bad as some people claim it is. Their wiki was highly innacurate and most profiles needed some revision. The wiki was nuked, thus purging all that erroneous info so it's no longer a problem. The Battledome itself is pretty okay for a versus site.

If you wanna name a debating shithole, then name Moviecodec.

I've seen battles on the OBD. No one has a clue on what they're talking about. MVC is actually not that bad. At least they know their full of shit, and they do have a couple of decent guys that know what they're talking about. I post there as a guest at times.

Every forum has its share of wankers, fanboys and other retards who have no clue about what they speak of. Once you get to know a fraction of the people in there, that's when you find the guys who are not clueless. And I guess it also depends on someone's standards anyway, we are likely to not reach a conclusion about them being full of shit or not.

But MovieCodec is not a shithole because only of debating quality, it's also repetitive as hell. Yes, it's really active, but most threads are about DBZ and HST characters. Well, at least they have given birth to some amusing memes.

Do you realize we were getting way off topic?

Agreed we are getting off topic, but my slam against the OBD was because Walkure was trying to state that information from the OBD shouldn't be dismissed, but I tend to trust Cosmic more than the OBD.

As for MVC, most MVCers are just there to troll, but the ones that are actually there to VS debate aren't too bad.

Sadly the guests are usually better than the regular posters though.

Zarathustra wrote:

Walkure wrote:Just to point something out. This doesn't mean anything in particular, but whenever I see something of any sorts Othinus-related, I always see CK(75) as the first (and many times ONLY) person to jump to her defense.
Honestly, I don't think Chaos is wrong, it's how he views the text.

Sometimes it seems like you (CK) just take the liberty of using your interpretations as absolute. (An extreme example of this is Umineko, which I still say is almost unusable in vs debates due to the amount of interpretation that comes with it. One side sees all-powerful god lolis, the other sees (lol) lolis). Sometimes when it's just you debating for Index, it seems like you have free rein. "Pretty-sure" and "Obviously means" doesn't cut it.


We need more people just as knowledgeable on Index, and at the same time, we can't dismiss what others think either.
Othinus debates tend to fly all over the place depending on the forum (Her profiles tend to do this as well). Saying what you think a character is capable of, and just dismissing what everyone else thinks of the same character is rather half-assed. No one forum is any more competent then the other (So you can't just "lol OBD" and call it a day), so don't do the same thing with people.

tl:dr - Remember GetBackers

ChaosKnight actually shows quotes that back up his claims. He makes claims, and he shows evidence to back them up. If you're going to try claiming his interpretations are wrong, you're going to have to show your own evidence.

As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Sorry to bump this thread but i need to clear something off.

His quotes were never something that back up his claims in this thread thats why i claimed his interpretations wrong.

As for why i can do that?

ToAru is not writed with a omniscient narrator, so any feat or claim that the narrator does can't be taken seriously as a feat for the character itself, and most of what characters have done are or hyped or told by this narrator.

Everything done so far by most of the magic gods are still only some high-level reality warping, nothing more, the rest was claimed or hyped by author or other characters, which in the series is non-sense take them as truth.

Chaos wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:

Walkure wrote:Just to point something out. This doesn't mean anything in particular, but whenever I see something of any sorts Othinus-related, I always see CK(75) as the first (and many times ONLY) person to jump to her defense.
Honestly, I don't think Chaos is wrong, it's how he views the text.

Sometimes it seems like you (CK) just take the liberty of using your interpretations as absolute. (An extreme example of this is Umineko, which I still say is almost unusable in vs debates due to the amount of interpretation that comes with it. One side sees all-powerful god lolis, the other sees (lol) lolis). Sometimes when it's just you debating for Index, it seems like you have free rein. "Pretty-sure" and "Obviously means" doesn't cut it.


We need more people just as knowledgeable on Index, and at the same time, we can't dismiss what others think either.
Othinus debates tend to fly all over the place depending on the forum (Her profiles tend to do this as well). Saying what you think a character is capable of, and just dismissing what everyone else thinks of the same character is rather half-assed. No one forum is any more competent then the other (So you can't just "lol OBD" and call it a day), so don't do the same thing with people.

tl:dr - Remember GetBackers

ChaosKnight actually shows quotes that back up his claims. He makes claims, and he shows evidence to back them up. If you're going to try claiming his interpretations are wrong, you're going to have to show your own evidence.

As for the OBD, it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss them on the spot. That site is the shit hole of VS forums. No one there has any idea what they're talking about.

Sorry to bump this thread but i need to clear something off.

His quotes were never something that back up his claims in this thread thats why i claimed his interpretations wrong.

As for why i can do that?

ToAru is not writed with a omniscient narrator, so any feat or claim that the narrator does can't be taken seriously as a feat for the character itself, and most of what characters have done are or hyped or told by this narrator.

Everything done so far by most of the magic gods are still only some high-level reality warping, nothing more, the rest was claimed or hyped by author or other characters, which in the series is non-sense take them as truth.

Careful now, your desperation is starting to show. This must have been on your mind for a while now to even think about opening your mouth again after all this time. Did you lose any sleep over it, friend? Meanwhile, everyone else has long moved on with their lives except you. Any series written in the third person is usually told by an omniscient narrator, often the writer himself, by default. Toaru is one of those. Anybody whose picked up the book would know this. Everything else your rambling about that you say is a fact because........ you say so? Please, at least make an effort to hide your ignorance.

@ChaosKnight75: careful now, your bordering on insults. Let's keep this debate from getting heated please.