Lovecraft Mythos vs Dark Tower verse

How would a fight between these two verses go?

Depends on which one is as strong as Umineko. That's the one that wins.

Kurohige wrote:Depends on which one is as strong as Umineko. That's the one that wins.

are you seriously going to be this childish?

How rude. I'm childish because of a reasonable comparison? Think of it this way: a battle between the fodder Thanos and MM, which one went the furthest against Beyonder who is stronger than both? MM, so he would win that fight. same thing here. Stop jumping to conclusions, senpai.

Kurohige wrote:Depends on which one is as strong as Umineko. That's the one that wins.

Well Lovecraft and Dark Tower are both stronger than Marvel, so there's that.

It's iffy how they would do against Umineko.

Well duh! Medaka box is stronger than Marvel, DC is too, but either way it's not saying much. That's like saying a dinosaur is stronger than an ant, logic. Anyway, that's what it comes down to, I think Lovecraft may have an edge but I dunno, I need more expert opinions, I'm far to biased and would not be able to say anything is above my waifu Beatrice. What do you think?

Kurohige wrote:Well duh! Medaka box is stronger than Marvel, DC is too, but either way it's not saying much. That's like saying a dinosaur is stronger than an ant, logic. Anyway, that's what it comes down to, I think Lovecraft may have an edge but I dunno, I need more expert opinions, I'm far to biased and would not be able to say anything is above my waifu Beatrice. What do you think?

LOL. my sides are splitting right now. XD But c'mon man, enoughs enough. We get it. If you do this too much, it has the opposite effect of no longer being funny to most people and you'll lose your credibility I can tell you have from seeing you debate.

ChaosKnight75! Holy crap! I'm just gonna side with whatever you start to debate! Nobody ever beat you! But seriously, you boys are all so selfish and mean, it's all about you ain't it? It's always trolling or for your own amusement, but what about me? Can't I have anything? This is the Boy who cried Wolf all over again. Either way, losing credibility? After having the gal to defend Marvel against Umineko? Blasphemy! That's like a devil killing an angel! There is no hope for penence! All I can do now if live my days as an avatar for my waifu, Beatrice, and wage war all allt hings Marvel! I'm off to Comicvine to spread the word of God...no that's..too weak.. weak weak weak! The word of Battler-christ. To Comicvine I go!

Kurohige wrote:ChaosKnight75! Holy crap! I'm just gonna side with whatever you start to debate! Nobody ever beat you! But seriously, you boys are all so selfish and mean, it's all about you ain't it? It's always trolling or for your own amusement, but what about me? Can't I have anything? This is the Boy who cried Wolf all over again. Either way, losing credibility? After having the gal to defend Marvel against Umineko? Blasphemy! That's like a devil killing an angel! There is no hope for penence! All I can do now if live my days as an avatar for my waifu, Beatrice, and wage war all allt hings Marvel! I'm off to Comicvine to spread the word of God...no that's..too weak.. weak weak weak! The word of Battler-christ. To Comicvine I go!

Actually, I think he prefers to be called the Golden Endless Scorcerer. :p

Kurohige wrote:ChaosKnight75! Holy crap! I'm just gonna side with whatever you start to debate! Nobody ever beat you! But seriously, you boys are all so selfish and mean, it's all about you ain't it? It's always trolling or for your own amusement, but what about me? Can't I have anything? This is the Boy who cried Wolf all over again. Either way, losing credibility? After having the gal to defend Marvel against Umineko? Blasphemy! That's like a devil killing an angel! There is no hope for penence! All I can do now if live my days as an avatar for my waifu, Beatrice, and wage war all allt hings Marvel! I'm off to Comicvine to spread the word of God...no that's..too weak.. weak weak weak! The word of Battler-christ. To Comicvine I go!

Alright. Just looking out for you man. But totally you and I should team up! We'd make an unstoppable team that would solo all of fiction. Starting with Marvel of course.

Why would a dinosaur bother starting his meal by eating ants? But yeah, I'm gonna start the thread on Comcivine but I cna't figure out what it should be. and Correction: WE are not soling fiction, Battler and Waifu Beatrice are, but they can easily do the same on their own.

Kurohige wrote:Why would a dinosaur bother starting his meal by eating ants? But yeah, I'm gonna start the thread on Comcivine but I cna't figure out what it should be. and Correction: WE are not soling fiction, Battler and Waifu Beatrice are, but they can easily do the same on their own.

Nonsense! You just told me yourself you'd follow everything I say and vice-versa. Like it or not, you and I are both in this now man.

Kurohige wrote:Why would a dinosaur bother starting his meal by eating ants? But yeah, I'm gonna start the thread on Comcivine but I cna't figure out what it should be. and Correction: WE are not soling fiction, Battler and Waifu Beatrice are, but they can easily do the same on their own.

Umineko vs Marvel thread on comicvine? This is actually a really good idea. Comicvine doesn't have many non comic nigh omnipotent debates.

Go ahead make it. You might even find people to side with you.

YES as long as I can convert them to Uminekoism I will have done my duty.

We're obviously not including Omnis.

Anyway, it's been an extremely long time since I've last read the Dark Tower series. I think the ending was that Roland fails, Abbala (The Crimson King) collapses the Tower and ends all of existence, only for Gan to reset the story and Roland will go on his journey again and just keep failing.

I'm sure I might have remembered some stuff falsely or forgot bits here and there but I think that was the gist of it.

That being said, only Yog and Nya will prove to be adequate challengers, but they'll have to face The Turtle, The Spider, And Abbala, and they're all of equal power more or less ('cept for Nya, pretty sure it's weaker than Yog).

So that being said, I think DT verse wins but after a hard fight.

Yog-Sothoth:

Through the Gates of the Silver Key wrote:

There are an infinite number of dimensions.

The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity.

A mention of more than one space-time continuum.

The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing, the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones. Though men hail it as reality and brand thoughts of its many-dimensioned original as unreality, it is in truth the very opposite. That which we call substance and reality is shadow and illusion, and that which we call shadow and illusion is substance and reality.

All of our reality and our universe is unimaginably small in comparison to the rest of the Cthulhu Mythos multiverse.

The main body of the beings inhabits strangely organized abysses wholly beyond the utmost reach of any human imagination. The space-time globule which we recognize as the totality of all cosmic entity is only an atom in the genuine infinity which is theirs.

The amount of space-time continuums are infinite.

Even now I absolutely refuse to believe what he implied about the constitution of ultimate infinity, the juxtaposition of dimensions, and the frightful position of our known cosmos of space and time in the unending chain of linked cosmos-atoms which makes up the immediate super-cosmos of curves, angles, and material and semi-material electronic organization.

Another statement stating that our space-time continuum is only one of an infinite amount.

Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth. He knows where the Old Ones broke through of old, and where They shall break through again. He knows where They have trod earth’s fields, and where They still tread them, and why no one can behold Them as They tread.

Yog-Sothoth is the embodiment of all if this, and is the personification of everything in the verse.

It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self, not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep; the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH.

A gate had been unlocked;not indeed the Ultimate Gate, but one leading from earth and time to that extension of earth which is outside time, and from which in turn the Ultimate Gate leads fearsomely and perilously to the Last Void which is outside all earths, all universes, and all matter.

However, Yog-Sothoth also exists in the void outside of the multiverse despite being omnipresent within it, hinting at even greater power.

The archetypes, throbbed the waves, are the people of the ultimate abyss; formless, ineffable, and guessed at only by rare dreamers on the low-dimensioned worlds. Chief among such was this informing BEING itself . . . which indeed was Carter’s own archetype. The glutless zeal of Carter and all his forbears for forbidden cosmic secrets was a natural result of derivation from the SUPREME ARCHETYPE. On every world all great wizards, all great thinkers, all great artists, are facets of IT.

The Archetypes, of whom Yog-Sothoth is most powerful and supreme of all, have total control over time.

After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting, being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will.

Yog-Sothoth simply speaking is comparable to universes slamming into and annihilating each other.

Quatro And Nothing More wrote:Dark Tower definitely. They have more of an arsenal and more people with equal power honestly. It wont be an easy fight mind you, but I don't see a way Lovecraft is winning unless we are including the higher level characters as well.

What EMC said. Yog-Sothoth is above Hilbert Space level, meaning he is the embodiment of an infinite dimensional multiverse, but is also beyond that.

I'm pretty sure Dark Tower is Hilbert Space level (does Dark Tower have an infinite amount of spatial dimensions?) but I haven't seen anything above that. So Gan might stalemate Yog-Sothoth at best, but would probably get murked by Azathoth.

Crimson King makes the author write them out of existence.
Besides he’s a Megaversal+ enemy who was stated to be far above other Megaversal beings, not to mention he was threatening the author himself, and I mean CK was legit threatening the author, and had no fear of him, Stephen King however, did hold some fear for CK... Lovecraft’s beings are just extra-dimensional entities that we can’t understand ever in any way, shape, or form. To them, what we think is “evil” is just them having a nice walk in the park. They see us as we see blades of grass; nothing important with no consequence or benefit if we step on it or not. The ignorant human characters calls them Gods, but that’s what they’re not. We simply don’t know what they really are or what their intentions are. That’s why they’re so horrifying in the first place. And while Azaloth can simply Wake up=nothing exists anymore since the Silver Key tells us that they’re are infinite dimensions existing everywhere, dimensions that are infinitely bigger than ours and so on. ect. However Gan spun an infinite number of universes from his novel IIRC.

Quote-
“If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

Also, there are indeed many sets of infinity that make up the Dark Tower

Quote-
In world upon world - in worlds strung side by side in multiple dimensions throughout infinity - evils shrivel and disperse: despots choke to death on chicken bones; tyrants fall before assassins' bullets, before the poisoned sweetmeats arrayed by their treacherous mistresses; hooded torturers collapse dying on bloody stone floors. Ty’s deed reverberates through the great, numberless string of universes, revenging evil as it spreads. Three worlds over from ours and in the great city there known as Londinorium, Turner Topham, for two decades a respected member of Parliament and for three a sadistic pedophile, bursts abruptly into flame as he strides along the crowded avenue known as Pick-a-Derry. Two worlds down, a nice-looking young welder named Freddy Garver from the Isle of Irse, another, less seasoned member of Topham’s clan, turns his torch upon his own left hand and incinerates every particle of flesh off his bones.

Up, up in his high, faraway confinement, the Crimson King feels a deep pain in his gut and drops into a chair, grimacing. Something, he knows, something fundamental, has changed in his dreary fiefdom.


More info on such infinite layers.


Quote-
Or one might take the tip of the pencil and magnify it. One reaches the point where a stunning realization strikes home: The pencil tip is not solid; it is composed of atoms which whirl and revolve like a trillion demon planets. What seems solid to us is actually only a loose net held together by gravity. Viewed at their actual size, the distances between these atoms might become league, gulfs, aeons. The atoms themselves are composed of nuclei and revolving protons and electrons. One may step down further to subatomic particles. And then to what? Tachyons? Nothing? Of course not. Everything in the universe denies nothing; to suggest an ending is the one absurdity.


Quote-
Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds but universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others.We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed.


On the other hand, According to Lovecraft, anything we can come up with is literally nothing to the Outer Gods. They can’t be compared to by anything. Even calling them Gods is just a way of trying to cope with their existence somehow. Technically this means trying to compare the KC and the other one to the Outer Gods is pointless because they are simply us trying to cope with the outer God’s existence. They’re too far beyond any reasoning. Going by Lovecraft’s logic. Still The true form of pennywise, the deadlights, was incomprehensible, humans who looked at it would be killed instantly, only a few survived, and that probably had to do with some interference from Gan/the turtle.

And CK made a being of the same kin as pennywise shit himself in fear at becoming snack food.

I will admit though, I freakin' love Lovecraft's abominations, some of my favorites ever depicted:

Isn't that second picture Emrakul from Magic The Gathering?

Quatro And Nothing More wrote:Crimson King makes the author write them out of existence.
Besides he’s a Megaversal+ enemy who was stated to be far above other Megaversal beings, not to mention he was threatening the author himself, and I mean CK was legit threatening the author, and had no fear of him, Stephen King however, did hold some fear for CK... Lovecraft’s beings are just extra-dimensional entities that we can’t understand ever in any way, shape, or form. To them, what we think is “evil” is just them having a nice walk in the park. They see us as we see blades of grass; nothing important with no consequence or benefit if we step on it or not. The ignorant human characters calls them Gods, but that’s what they’re not. We simply don’t know what they really are or what their intentions are. That’s why they’re so horrifying in the first place. And while Azaloth can simply Wake up=nothing exists anymore since the Silver Key tells us that they’re are infinite dimensions existing everywhere, dimensions that are infinitely bigger than ours and so on. ect. However Gan spun an infinite number of universes from his novel IIRC.

Quote-
“If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

Also, there are indeed many sets of infinity that make up the Dark Tower

Quote-
In world upon world - in worlds strung side by side in multiple dimensions throughout infinity - evils shrivel and disperse: despots choke to death on chicken bones; tyrants fall before assassins' bullets, before the poisoned sweetmeats arrayed by their treacherous mistresses; hooded torturers collapse dying on bloody stone floors. Ty’s deed reverberates through the great, numberless string of universes, revenging evil as it spreads. Three worlds over from ours and in the great city there known as Londinorium, Turner Topham, for two decades a respected member of Parliament and for three a sadistic pedophile, bursts abruptly into flame as he strides along the crowded avenue known as Pick-a-Derry. Two worlds down, a nice-looking young welder named Freddy Garver from the Isle of Irse, another, less seasoned member of Topham’s clan, turns his torch upon his own left hand and incinerates every particle of flesh off his bones.

Up, up in his high, faraway confinement, the Crimson King feels a deep pain in his gut and drops into a chair, grimacing. Something, he knows, something fundamental, has changed in his dreary fiefdom.


More info on such infinite layers.


Quote-
Or one might take the tip of the pencil and magnify it. One reaches the point where a stunning realization strikes home: The pencil tip is not solid; it is composed of atoms which whirl and revolve like a trillion demon planets. What seems solid to us is actually only a loose net held together by gravity. Viewed at their actual size, the distances between these atoms might become league, gulfs, aeons. The atoms themselves are composed of nuclei and revolving protons and electrons. One may step down further to subatomic particles. And then to what? Tachyons? Nothing? Of course not. Everything in the universe denies nothing; to suggest an ending is the one absurdity.


Quote-
Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds but universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others.We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed.


On the other hand, According to Lovecraft, anything we can come up with is literally nothing to the Outer Gods. They can’t be compared to by anything. Even calling them Gods is just a way of trying to cope with their existence somehow. Technically this means trying to compare the KC and the other one to the Outer Gods is pointless because they are simply us trying to cope with the outer God’s existence. They’re too far beyond any reasoning. Going by Lovecraft’s logic. Still The true form of pennywise, the deadlights, was incomprehensible, humans who looked at it would be killed instantly, only a few survived, and that probably had to do with some interference from Gan/the turtle.

And CK made a being of the same kin as pennywise shit himself in fear at becoming snack food.

I will admit though, I freakin' love Lovecraft's abominations, some of my favorites ever depicted:

A couple of points. First of all, megaverse and multiverse mean the same thing. So Dark Tower has universes being smaller than elementary particles in the upper floor, that would qualify as upper dimension. So if Dark Tower had infinite floors, they would be infinite dimensional just like Lovecraft. Threatening the author isn't a feat suitable for battle forums. Crimson King only scared the author because Stephen King wrote him like that. Also the author wasn't even in the Lovecraft mythos so as far as the Lovecraft mythos is concerned, Azathoth is the supreme leader.

Marvel and DC are above Umineko and Dark Tower........

Plus lovecraft if you allow statement feats then Lovecraft.

Naruto Uzumaki wrote:Marvel and DC are above Umineko and Dark Tower........

Plus lovecraft if you allow statement feats then Lovecraft.

False.


Lovecraft > Dark Tower > Umineko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvel/DC.

Marvel is at best 16 dimensional. Lovecraft and Dark Tower are Hilbert Space level and Umineko is just a notch below that.

Suggsverse>>>>>>>>Demonbane>=Lovecraft Mythos>=KKK>Dark Tower>Umineko>SMT>Tenchi Muyo>=To Aru>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marvel/DC

dhalsim wrote:

Naruto Uzumaki wrote:Marvel and DC are above Umineko and Dark Tower........

Plus lovecraft if you allow statement feats then Lovecraft.

False.


Lovecraft > Dark Tower > Umineko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvel/DC.

Marvel is at best 16 dimensional. Lovecraft and Dark Tower are Hilbert Space level and Umineko is just a notch below that.

Not really also different fictions dont have the same logic also Hilbert space levels dont mean anything in the actual work of fiction.
Marvel=DC>>>>>>>>>>>Lovecraft >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dark Tower>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Umineko